Saints v. Skins Gameday Thread

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Like I said above, you are using hindsight to justify what Taylor and Browner couldn't have know at the time. (Whether the runner would slow or not) Taylor could have blocked someone ahead of the runner, he chose instead to get a good running start and nail an opponent head-on. On Browner's play if Jones slows down, Long is a factor as a blocker.

I think we are going to disagree on this no matter what. I do think it's hypocritical to think Taylor's hit is good and Browner's bad.

We are going to have to agree to disagree, however I do want to make a couple of comments about what you put. If Jones slows down and Browner stayed on point, he makes the tackle, regardless of what Long does. So to me, that part of your post is a non-issue. I dont buy that Long is a blocker for a guy that was tackled (if Jones slowed down that is). At that point, Long is an OL heading back to the huddle with 7 less points on the board.

As for that last line you typed. To me, its not about clean or dirty. Its about putting yourself above the team. Its about whether the player was selfish or team oriented. The reason I bolded the last line in my post is because to me, thats the crux of the situation. I dont really care if anyone calls both hits dirty, both hits cheap, both hits clean, or one is and one isnt. That was never my point.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

We are going to have to agree to disagree, however I do want to make a couple of comments about what you put. If Jones slows down and Browner stayed on point, he makes the tackle, regardless of what Long does. So to me, that part of your post is a non-issue. I dont buy that Long is a blocker for a guy that was tackled (if Jones slowed down that is). At that point, Long is an OL heading back to the huddle with 7 less points on the board..

Dude, Long is not heading back to the huddle. He is chasing the runner to try to help. And was in position to block if something happened to slow or hold Jones up.

Originally Posted by Skinzman

As for that last line you typed. To me, its not about clean or dirty. Its about putting yourself above the team. Its about whether the player was selfish or team oriented. The reason I bolded the last line in my post is because to me, thats the crux of the situation. I dont really care if anyone calls both hits dirty, both hits cheap, both hits clean, or one is and one isnt. That was never my point.

Good. Now look how Taylor and his victim, and Browner and his victim, are in remarkably similar postions. Chasing close behind the runner off to the side a few yards. With neither player at the time knowing if the runner is going to get slowed or not. Yet you and others are saying that the hit the Skins player made is OK, but the hit made by the Saints player is not.

The way the Taylor play went, Taylor's victim could not have tackled Thrash. Thrash didn't even make a cut, he turned a little to the inside, a couple degrees and turned back again, not slowing his forward progress at all.

Now why I still say the Taylor hit is OK, who's to say at the time that Thrash wouldn't cut one way or the other, or get held up. But Thrash was actually tackled by the players ahead of him.

But if Jones slows, Browner goes in for the tackle, and Long blindsides him instead, I guess of course we cheer that. That situation is hypocritical, IMO.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Dude, Long is not heading back to the huddle. He is chasing the runner to try to help. And was in position to block if something happened to slow or hold Jones up.

Good. Now look how Taylor and his victim, and Browner and his victim, are in remarkably similar postions. Chasing close behind the runner off to the side a few yards. With neither player at the time knowing if the runner is going to get slowed or not. Yet you and others are saying that the hit the Skins player made is OK, but the hit made by the Saints player is not.

The way the Taylor play went, Taylor's victim could not have tackled Thrash. Thrash didn't even make a cut, he turned a little to the inside, a couple degrees and turned back again, not slowing his forward progress at all.

Now why I still say the Taylor hit is OK, who's to say at the time that Thrash wouldn't cut one way or the other, or get held up. But Thrash was actually tackled by the players ahead of him.

But if Jones slows, Browner goes in for the tackle, and Long blindsides him instead, I guess of course we cheer that. That situation is hypocritical, IMO.

You misunderstood what I said. You said that if Jones slows down that Long could possibly be in a position to block someone. What I said is if Jones did slow down and Browner was going for the tackle, he would have made the tackle (barring Jones breaking it). Long was in no position to block Browner at that time. He was behind Browner and is slower than Browner. The walking back to the huddle comment is if Jones slows down and Browner tackles him. Which if he was tackled, then yes, Long is walking back to the huddle and not celebrating a TD.

As for the rest of your post, its all about fairness of the hit. Which I have already said is not my point and never has been. You are even referring to them as victims now. Its not about the hit per say, its about ST doing what he was supposed to in that situation... trying to make a block. And Browner NOT doing what he was supposed to in that situation... trying to make a tackle. There is nothing hypocritical of my stance.

Yes, the runner for the skins got tackled by someone in front of him. But there were three defenders in front of him and ST wasnt getting them all blocked. Plus, if ST doesnt block who he did, the tackle takes place 10-15 yards earlier do to the initial cut back in then going back out towards the sidelines. The guy that ST blocked would have made the tackle if he wasnt blocked. ST did the right thing and Browner did not.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

You misunderstood what I said. You said that if Jones slows down that Long could possibly be in a position to block someone. What I said is if Jones did slow down and Browner was going for the tackle, he would have made the tackle (barring Jones breaking it). Long was in no position to block Browner at that time. He was behind Browner and is slower than Browner. The walking back to the huddle comment is if Jones slows down and Browner tackles him. Which if he was tackled, then yes, Long is walking back to the huddle and not celebrating a TD.

As for the rest of your post, its all about fairness of the hit. Which I have already said is not my point and never has been. You are even referring to them as victims now. Its not about the hit per say, its about ST doing what he was supposed to in that situation... trying to make a block. And Browner NOT doing what he was supposed to in that situation... trying to make a tackle. There is nothing hypocritical of my stance.

Yes, the runner for the skins got tackled by someone in front of him. But there were three defenders in front of him and ST wasnt getting them all blocked. Plus, if ST doesnt block who he did, the tackle takes place 10-15 yards earlier do to the initial cut back in then going back out towards the sidelines. The guy that ST blocked would have made the tackle if he wasnt blocked. ST did the right thing and Browner did not.

I would just repeat myself about Long being a factor. I say he is, you say he's not.

The hypocrisy is that neither player blocked could have gotten involved with the runner as things actually happened, but there was the possibility of both being a factor. Yet one hit is praised and the other criticized. Coincedentally along team colors lines.

Fairness? I liked seeing Taylor victimize his guy. And I acknowledge that Browner got a good hit on Long too. They were both clean hits. It's football, I say deal with it.