Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Buffalo Bob

Just passing on what I heard on ESPN 980 radio just now. Riggins was on and not sure of who the other guys were, they all seem to agree that Cousins will go for the "money grab" and won't give the Redskins any discounts. For various reasons he doesn't feel appreciated, and thinks he was always better than RG3 and never should have sat behind him.

"I'm not trying to suck out every dollar possible. That's not the kind of guy I am or how I’m going to approach it," he said. "I understand, like Scot McCloughan and Jay Gruden, it’s all about winning football games."

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by HTTR

We should be able to critique (positive and negative) a player's performance, demeanor, and leadership skills without being called haters. We all agree that KC turned out to be the true NFL starter as between him and RG3. (And don't think he didn't know it and developed a little chip on his shoulder -- that's the mark of a competitor.)

But here we are, facing another decision point, trying to understand what our FO thinks and plans to do. It's a great discussion. Personally, I'm in the try to sign him at 20m camp, understanding that it might take 22-23. Easy to say, but what if he demands 26? That's the crux of this argument.

That 20-22 range says that there are legitimate reservations about KC, and those of you who say "trust the front office" on a whole range of personnel matters should also trust them here. They have some concerns about signing him at 25-27, and so should we. That doesn't make them or us haters.

Here are my concerns. I have no idea whether this is what the FO is thinking.

His skills as a QB, which are top notch, are not matched by that intangible passion-driven thing that the elite QBs have. KIrk was having a much better year than Cam when we played the Panthers. But Cam, even dinged, willed himself to a great performance while Kirk was so-so. Cam is anything but a "consummate professional," but I want Kirk to have some of what Cam has.

If you listen to Kirk's interviews on Grant and Danny after games, he is oddly dispassionate. I have always liked this about him -- he keeps his cool, he doesn't whine about other players, doesn't get down on himself, etc. But when you think about this in terms of leadership disposition, my radar is catching a little static. I wouldn't care about this much for any position other than QB.

This doesn't mean he isn't a worthy franchise QB. But it should concern us that the most important guy on the team, the biggest cap hit on the team, however talented, may not have that "FU, I'm taking this game over" in his gut. Garçon showed this on Sunday. Kirk did not.

I'm not a Kirk hater. But I'm old enough to remember legions of less talented Skins who thrived in the spotlight. Kirk's stats show that he has the talent, no argument there. I don't know if he has the steel to be truly elite. I'm willing to pay to find out -- the viable options are bleak -- but let's admit the risks involved.

This is a really terrific post.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

This is a really terrific post.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Great post HTTR. I am also apprehensive at bringing him in for anything more than 25 mil a year, so hopefully we can get a deal done at 22-23 and we will all be satisfied. I really would hate to see what happens if Kirk demands 26 and up. Because our hands are tied, either we get fucked on a solid qb option or we give in and we fuck the rest of the team with a Flacco-type deal.

[metalskins]

Originally Posted by mooby

Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Great post HTTR. I am also apprehensive at bringing him in for anything more than 25 mil a year, so hopefully we can get a deal done at 22-23 and we will all be satisfied. I really would hate to see what happens if Kirk demands 26 and up. Because our hands are tied, either we get fucked on a solid qb option or we give in and we fuck the rest of the team with a Flacco-type deal.

As much as I'd like to keep Cousins, if he expects nothing less than $26M a year and there's another team willing to pay him that, then I'd have to say bye. There's a fine line between setting your team back a year or so in order to get (hopefully) another young, talented quarterback, and then there's a setting your team back five or six years because you have a solid franchise quarterback but can't afford to finish building a solid defense or keeping the quarterback's weapons signed.

Honestly, if he winds up being too rich for the 'skins blood, I would be willing to let him walk and resign both Jackson and Garcon.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by metalskins

As much as I'd like to keep Cousins, if he expects nothing less than $26M a year and there's another team willing to pay him that, then I'd have to say bye. There's a fine line between setting your team back a year or so in order to get (hopefully) another young, talented quarterback, and then there's a setting your team back five or six years because you have a solid franchise quarterback but can't afford to finish building a solid defense or keeping the quarterback's weapons signed.

Honestly, if he winds up being too rich for the 'skins blood, I would be willing to let him walk and resign both Jackson and Garcon.

I agree. But getting Cousins done will be a first priority, then everything will fall in line after that. So if he decides to move on (highly doubtful, I'm positive he will be re-tagged if no deal is reached) then Jackson would probably move on too. Hell, Jackson is probably moving on anyways if the reports from Brandon Graham are true.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by metalskins

As much as I'd like to keep Cousins, if he expects nothing less than $26M a year and there's another team willing to pay him that, then I'd have to say bye. There's a fine line between setting your team back a year or so in order to get (hopefully) another young, talented quarterback, and then there's a setting your team back five or six years because you have a solid franchise quarterback but can't afford to finish building a solid defense or keeping the quarterback's weapons signed.

Honestly, if he winds up being too rich for the 'skins blood, I would be willing to let him walk and resign both Jackson and Garcon.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by HTTR

If you listen to Kirk's interviews on Grant and Danny after games, he is oddly dispassionate. I have always liked this about him -- he keeps his cool, he doesn't whine about other players, doesn't get down on himself, etc. But when you think about this in terms of leadership disposition, my radar is catching a little static. I wouldn't care about this much for any position other than QB.

This doesn't mean he isn't a worthy franchise QB. But it should concern us that the most important guy on the team, the biggest cap hit on the team, however talented, may not have that "FU, I'm taking this game over" in his gut. Garçon showed this on Sunday. Kirk did not.

Agree with Schneed. Quality post you had good sir, and I especially appreciate this part because it's exactly how I feel. You don't see that passion in him like you do others. I hate to compare any QB to Brady, but the one thing I have always admired about Brady is his fire and passion for the game. I think it's a big reason guys love playing with him, and you note in the below video the guy runs across the field all the way to the endzone after Edleman runs a punt return back. I see this same kind of fire in Phillip Rivers as well and with Drew Brees. I just don't see it in Cousins.

[WillH]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Agree with Schneed. Quality post you had good sir, and I especially appreciate this part because it's exactly how I feel. You don't see that passion in him like you do others. I hate to compare any QB to Brady, but the one thing I have always admired about Brady is his fire and passion for the game. I think it's a big reason guys love playing with him, and you note in the below video the guy runs across the field all the way to the endzone after Edleman runs a punt return back. I see this same kind of fire in Phillip Rivers as well and with Drew Brees. I just don't see it in Cousins.

I don't know that I agree with you all. Maybe we are thinking about different things, but he seems to get jacked up for games, hence the silly tunnel outbursts. I like seeing a QB that gets hyped for the game, but is calm before he hits the podium.

That said, I think there are times when his sense of urgency leads him to make mental errors rather then give him the killer instinct, and I think that is the biggest question mark I have with him now. Can he win big games for us by willing a perfect drive? Eli can do it (and I don't think he is a great QB), and he has taken his team to the promise land.

Recently, I was all for signing him long term, but after Sunday, I think I'm starting to lean toward franchising him again. It would probably really piss him off, but let's be real guy, if you choke with the playoffs on the line there are going to be ??? So if you aren't willing to take a reasonable contract, then it is you forcing the franchise tag and taking the risk.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Agree with Schneed. Quality post you had good sir, and I especially appreciate this part because it's exactly how I feel. You don't see that passion in him like you do others. I hate to compare any QB to Brady, but the one thing I have always admired about Brady is his fire and passion for the game. I think it's a big reason guys love playing with him, and you note in the below video the guy runs across the field all the way to the endzone after Edleman runs a punt return back. I see this same kind of fire in Phillip Rivers as well and with Drew Brees. I just don't see it in Cousins.

Now we're starting to go off the deep end. You don't think he's got passion? You like that? How you like me now? The way he sprints down the field to congratulate someone on a TD?

Come on man.

NFL: 'Sound FX' - Kirk Cousins Versus Packers

'Sound FX': Kirk Cousins - NFL Videos

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by MTK

Now we're starting to go off the deep end. You don't think he's got passion? You like that? How you like me now? The way he sprints down the field to congratulate someone on a TD?

Come on man.

NFL: 'Sound FX' - Kirk Cousins Versus Packers

'Sound FX': Kirk Cousins - NFL Videos

I never said he didn't have passion or a fire. Anybody playing in the NFL most likely has some form of passion/fire to direct that much time and effort into their craft. I want to see that fire and passion even when losing, not just when things are going right. I want to see that fire and passion in his play mostly. I did a bad job conveying my thoughts in regards to the passion/fire of Cousins.

[OmahaRedskins]

Originally Posted by MTK

Now we're starting to go off the deep end. You don't think he's got passion? You like that? How you like me now? The way he sprints down the field to congratulate someone on a TD?

Come on man.

NFL: 'Sound FX' - Kirk Cousins Versus Packers

'Sound FX': Kirk Cousins - NFL Videos

Starting to go off the deep end? It went of the tracks in October.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by MTK

Now we're starting to go off the deep end. You don't think he's got passion? You like that? How you like me now? The way he sprints down the field to congratulate someone on a TD?



Come on man.



NFL: 'Sound FX' - Kirk Cousins Versus Packers



'Sound FX': Kirk Cousins - NFL Videos

Yeah he has passion. I agree. Ton of it. He is missing ice water in his veins. He has shown flashes of it, but he still shows shakiness at times. It is obviously 100% mental with him. All the physical tools are there. He could learn how to run when he has to but we know he has a deadly accurate arm. I always feel like he still cannot get over the fact he is starting for us. Still cannot believe it. He did spend a long time wondering if that day would ever come.

[ethat001]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Yeah he has passion. I agree. Ton of it. He is missing ice water in his veins. He has shown flashes of it, but he still shows shakiness at times. It is obviously 100% mental with him. All the physical tools are there. He could learn how to run when he has to but we know he has a deadly accurate arm. I always feel like he still cannot get over the fact he is starting for us. Still cannot believe it. He did spend a long time wondering if that day would ever come.

Agreed. He is ELITE in middling games.

BUT he gets flustered when he gets pressure / feels the rush. One or two sacks early tends to shake his confidence and he starts throwing check-downs instead of waiting for longer plays to develop.

And he still gets flustered in the biggest of games. Sure, he can make 4th quarter comebacks, and deliver like Matty Ice in mid-season 5-7 game win streaks. BUT he has not shown that level of Brady-steel in the last game of each season.

I personally think he'll be fine. Give him another season or two. Develop a run game to help in RZ / run out clock / develop play action. Develop a defense so we don't force the game on his shoulders. I think we'll like what we find if we have patience to avoid keep on going with the QB carousel. The best QB's have been around for years and know the system SO well they can audible or run the playbook at superbly high levels. If we ever want to see that, we should actually keep a QB more than 3 years.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Agree with Schneed. Quality post you had good sir, and I especially appreciate this part because it's exactly how I feel. You don't see that passion in him like you do others. I hate to compare any QB to Brady, but the one thing I have always admired about Brady is his fire and passion for the game. I think it's a big reason guys love playing with him, and you note in the below video the guy runs across the field all the way to the endzone after Edleman runs a punt return back. I see this same kind of fire in Phillip Rivers as well and with Drew Brees. I just don't see it in Cousins.

I also agree with your overall point NC but I think you chose a bad example. I see Kirk running down the field a lot when somebody makes a big play for a touchdown. I can't see that I've seen it on non-offensive plays, but then again we don't really score too many touchdowns on defense or special teams so what sample size do we have to work with. But I do agree that Kirk doesn't have that edge that Brady/Brees/Rivers has, aka that will to completely take over and dominate a game. I believe that's partially due to his penchant for turnovers when he gets too aggressive, he's probably been taught that he is at his best when he remains calm and stays within himself.

[HTTR]

Originally Posted by MTK

Now we're starting to go off the deep end. You don't think he's got passion? You like that? How you like me now? The way he sprints down the field to congratulate someone on a TD?



Come on man.



NFL: 'Sound FX' - Kirk Cousins Versus Packers



'Sound FX': Kirk Cousins - NFL Videos

He does have passion, but he doesn't harness it to play well. If anything, he works too hard to control his passion during big games, and comes out playing as though he's a diminished version of himself. After a good performance, he blurts it all out in a cute, nerdy way. Maybe that's passion, or maybe that's popping the cork on bottled up passion. Whatever it is, it isn't the same thing as melding your own passion with external pressure to produce an elevated result. How people perform in situations like Sunday's is revealing, unless you're a pure stat-hound.