Gibbs the GM

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by That Guy

every time you re-negotiate you HAVE to add more money, or else the players won't agree to it. so you're replacing one baloon with a slightly bigger one over and over again across multiple players. In the end it DOES mean more wasted money and more dead cap.

OK, yet another ridiculous innaccuracy in this thread regarding cap management. I think Canuck needs to teach a class (Canuck I had a feeling you were a fellow finance guy, now I'm sure of it after that cost of capital post).

When you RENEGOTIATE a contract you are RARELY adding more money. You're taking the roster bonus or base salary from the old contract and turning it into a signing bonus. The player doesn't care what you call the payment, they just care that they're getting it. They sign a deal for the same amount of money they were previously contracted for, and the cap hit is spread evenly over multiple seasons rather than hitting all that year. Every one of the Skins' big contracts are structured this way on purpose, so that when the big roster bonuses are due they can then be renegotiated into signing bonuses. Brunell and Jansen just restructured in this very manner. Moss, Springs, Portis, and several others will all do the same thing in the next few years.

Originally Posted by That Guy

the problem is, who's better? taylor, or some guy you've never heard of that may play 30% of the snaps. The best players on our defense were all drafted at one point, the UDFAs are high quality ones, but they're not springs, griffin, washington etc. They may be solid starters, but none have been impact players in the way rod smith has been etc. So I REALLY wouldn't bank on UDFAs as an equivalent to having solid drafts where you can get actual studs for cheap.

And this I find to be absurd. Football in the NFL is a team game, you need depth more than you need stars. Yes, Sean Taylor does great things for our team, and he's probably the MVP of the defense. But that's not to say guys like Joe Salavea'a and Lemar Marshall aren't incredibly important.

And if I can add one thing, just for a friggin reality check... don't you see a difference between the team this year and the team before Gibbs got here?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

OK, yet another ridiculous innaccuracy in this thread regarding cap management. I think Canuck needs to teach a class (Canuck I had a feeling you were a fellow finance guy, now I'm sure of it after that cost of capital post).

When you RENEGOTIATE a contract you are RARELY adding more money. You're taking the roster bonus or base salary from the old contract and turning it into a signing bonus. The player doesn't care what you call the payment, they just care that they're getting it. They sign a deal for the same amount of money they were previously contracted for, and the cap hit is spread evenly over multiple seasons rather than hitting all that year. Every one of the Skins' big contracts are structured this way on purpose, so that when the big roster bonuses are due they can then be renegotiated into signing bonuses. Brunell and Jansen just restructured in this very manner. Moss, Springs, Portis, and several others will all do the same thing in the next few years.

thats wrong, you do add more gauranteed money then whats left on the last contract or players don't sign it. If you didn't understand my post that's fine, but that doesn't make it either ridiculous or inaccurate. And your wrong if you don't think players care about what they're making or how much gauranteed money is in the deal. Samuels has refused to rework his contract a while back, wynn reufsed to rework his i believe under spurrier, it happens.

And this I find to be absurd. Football in the NFL is a team game, you need depth more than you need stars. Yes, Sean Taylor does great things for our team, and he's probably the MVP of the defense. But that's not to say guys like Joe Salavea'a and Lemar Marshall aren't incredibly important.

did i say they weren't? you can get depth in the draft too, and its not any more expensive outside of the first or second round. I was saying that generally better players get drafted than go undrafted. I fail to see how that's absurd. It seems like you're argueing just to argue, cause you're implying arguements i've never made.

And if I can add one thing, just for a friggin reality check... don't you see a difference between the team this year and the team before Gibbs got here?

I have no idea where this came from... am i not allowed to discuss topics here without being accused of not liking gibbs, the team or whatever you're trying to imply?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by That Guy

thats wrong, you do add more gauranteed money then whats left on the last contract or players don't sign it. If you didn't understand my post that's fine, but that doesn't make it either ridiculous or inaccurate. And your wrong if you don't think players care about what they're making or how much gauranteed money is in the deal. Samuels has refused to rework his contract a while back, wynn reufsed to rework his i believe under spurrier, it happens.

No man. You're confusing a contract extension with a contract renegotiation. Here's an example so you can understand: in 2006 Portis is due a $3 million roster bonus. He is owed that money if we keep him, it's just not guaranteed that we'll keep him and pay him. Of course Gibbs loves Portis, so they'll want to keep him. That $3 million, if paid as a roster bonus, counts all in 2006 against the cap. Portis will renegotiate it into a signing bonus, where he gets the $3 million in 2006 just as he would have under his old contract. Except now that is a signing bonus it will hit the cap over a couple years. Brunell, Jansen, and several others did this with their base salaries over this very offseason.

Now when you are saying that they're adding guaranteed money, that's a contract extension like what we gave Chris Samuels. His situation was different because he was still on his rookie contract, and was looking for his big pay day. We had to give him a larger signing bonus, but we also now have him for more years. But for the guys who already had their first big pay day like Moss, Griffin, Washington, Springs, Portis, Jansen, and Brunell, they're all willing to renegotiate their contract's structure as long as it means they still get the same amount of cash.

This leverages the salary cap to manageable levels and allows us to keep the team's core together in the long haul.

Originally Posted by That Guy

I have no idea where this came from... am i not allowed to discuss topics here without being accused of not liking gibbs, the team or whatever you're trying to imply?

When I said we needed a reality check, I was intending to address everyone. So I'm sorry if it came out like I was talking just to you. I just meant to point out that it seems ridiculous to criticize Gibbs' GM moves when the vast majority have worked out and are now producing a winning team that figures to be competitive all season long. The proof is in the pudding.