Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Ultimately, KC is a guy you can win with. Who knows if he's elite. He's certainly not garbage, and in the NFL where Osweiler gets 37Mil we are going to pay to keep him. We won't franchise him again, and I expect his number is going to be around 24mil per year.

I'd go with McCoy at a much lower rate than give 24mil/yr to Kirk. I'd rather build a quality team with the extra money than dump into a QB that's proven to be average at this point. Kirk isn't our main problem, but he hasn't shown he's worthy of an extension either in my book.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I'd go with McCoy at a much lower rate than give 24mil/yr to Kirk. I'd rather build a quality team with the extra money than dump into a QB that's proven to be average at this point. Kirk isn't our main problem, but he hasn't shown he's worthy of an extension either in my book.

That's the kind of thinking that gets coaches fired.
You can't decide to settle for someone worse because of a few million. Especially when 20 million isn't even that much towards the cap. 12% of the cap is where you want the QB cap to be.

20 million for about 5 more wins a season that McCoy isn't going to get you.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Bucket

That's the kind of thinking that gets coaches fired.
You can't decide to settle for someone worse because of a few million. Especially when 20 million isn't even that much towards the cap. 12% of the cap is where you want the QB cap to be.

20 million for about 5 more wins a season that McCoy isn't going to get you.

A few million? We're talking about the difference between 20mil/yr compared to 4mil/yr for a stop gap like McCoy. I like Kirk but I'm for one in the mindset that you dont' overpay for above average talent. So far, Kirk has shown he's marginal. He hasn't earned that long term deal in my opinion, but that could change the last half of this season. He had a really good game this past week, but we need to see it more consistently from week to week.

I highly doubt Kirk is netting us 5 more games with him starting. Kirk isn't the reason we're losing, but he's not always to reason we're winning either.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

A few million? We're talking about the difference between 20mil/yr compared to 4mil/yr for a stop gap like McCoy. I like Kirk but I'm for one in the mindset that you dont' overpay for marginal talent. So far, Kirk has shown he's marginal. He hasn't earned that long term deal in my opinion, but that could change the last half of this season. He had a really good game this past week, but we need to see it more consistently from week to week.

I highly doubt Kirk is netting us 5 more games with him starting. Kirk isn't the reason we're losing, but he's not always to reason we're winning either.

Kirk is not a marginal talent. Just about any credible talent evaluator would place him in the top half of all NFL QB's right now. My personal expectation is that he will continue to improve throughout this season and beyond.

Kirk won the game for us yesterday. Unfortunately, our defense gave it right back.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

A few million? We're talking about the difference between 20mil/yr compared to 4mil/yr for a stop gap like McCoy. I like Kirk but I'm for one in the mindset that you dont' overpay for marginal talent. So far, Kirk has shown he's marginal. He hasn't earned that long term deal in my opinion, but that could change the last half of this season. He had a really good game this past week, but we need to see it more consistently from week to week.



I highly doubt Kirk is netting us 5 more games with him starting. Kirk isn't the reason we're losing, but he's not always to reason we're winning either.

Marginal is a little harsh dont you think? His numbers over almost his last 20 games are far from marginal.
Also if you think we would be 4-3 with McCoy in can you please pass it over here it must be good. Lol. Over the course of 16 games he certainly garners us at least 5 more wins than Colt. Because of Cousins we almost won yesterday. I know we did not but there is almost zero percent probability that Colt takes us on two late touchdown drives to go ahead.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Marginal is a little harsh dont you think? His numbers over almost his last 20 games are far from marginal.
Also if you think we would be 4-3 with McCoy in can you please pass it over here it must be good. Lol. Over the course of 16 games he certainly garners us at least 5 more wins than Colt. Because of Cousins we almost won yesterday. I know we did not but there is almost zero percent probability that Colt takes us on two late touchdown drives to go ahead.

Marginal was indeed harsh so I retract that. He's above average QB. He's currently 21st in the league in QB rating, but he ranks high in terms of yards per game. I just don't like the idea of paying a non-franchise QB franchise kind of money that doesn't produce franchise type results. I'd be furious right now if I were a Bears or Ravens fan. Their QBs are killing their salary caps and they have nothing to show for it.

You also have to put into context the teams we've played for him to get those numbers as well.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

A few million? We're talking about the difference between 20mil/yr compared to 4mil/yr for a stop gap like McCoy. I like Kirk but I'm for one in the mindset that you dont' overpay for above average talent. So far, Kirk has shown he's marginal. He hasn't earned that long term deal in my opinion, but that could change the last half of this season. He had a really good game this past week, but we need to see it more consistently from week to week.

I highly doubt Kirk is netting us 5 more games with him starting. Kirk isn't the reason we're losing, but he's not always to reason we're winning either.

20 million is the going rate for QB'S like Kirk though. I don't understand how fans don't get this yet.

Kirk is winning games, and our team direction is going up with him at QB. I just don't see how you replace that with McCoy or an unknown. When you are 20 million above the cap, and have 2 WR out the door on contract years to add another 10 million to that.

You pay Kirk who knows the offense and winning games. 11-5 in last 16 games, and you use 30 million to pay your own. Drafting defense player makers for the defense coming years. Like you have with the offense.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Bucket

20 million is the going rate for QB'S like Kirk though. I don't understand how fans don't get this yet.

I understand it quite well, but it's only so because idiot owners are overpaying and getting very little in return to show for it. How much are the Dolphins getting for the return on Tannehill? Osweiler? Flaaco? Cutler? Alex Smith? I can go down the list of QBs vastly overpaid and their teams aren't getting their money's worth, and their teams aren't even winning due to QB play.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I understand it quite well, but it's only so because idiot owners are overpaying and getting very little in return to show for it. How much are the Dolphins getting for the return on Tannehill? Osweiler? Flaaco? Cutler? Alex Smith? I can go down the list of QBs vastly overpaid and their teams aren't getting their money's worth, and their teams aren't even winning due to QB play.

As others have said the going rate for average QB's like Osweiler is around 17 or 18 million. Are they overpaid? No, because that's what the market determined that they were worth. They may be in your eyes, and several others, but it's the market that determines their worth. Of the QB's that you list there aren't any better options out there, that's why they got their money.

Also KC is probably better than the QB's you have listed, outside of Flacco.

KC has earned the long term deal I think. He's proven to be a middle range starter, maybe slightly above that so he should be paid as such. We don't have any better options at this point. We aren't going anywhere with Colt McCoy under center.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I understand it quite well, but it's only so because idiot owners are overpaying and getting very little in return to show for it. How much are the Dolphins getting for the return on Tannehill? Osweiler? Flaaco? Cutler? Alex Smith? I can go down the list of QBs vastly overpaid and their teams aren't getting their money's worth, and their teams aren't even winning due to QB play.

I would argue that Kirk is playing better then every QB on that list since he became the starter.

None of them have 2 4th Quarter comebacks this year. Kirk has 2, should of been 3 if we held on yesterday.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Bucket

20 million is the going rate for QB'S like Kirk though. I don't understand how fans don't get this yet.

Kirk is winning games, and our team direction is going up with him at QB. I just don't see how you replace that with McCoy or an unknown. When you are 20 million above the cap, and have 2 WR out the door on contract years to add another 10 million to that.

You pay Kirk who knows the offense and winning games. 11-5 in last 16 games, and you use 30 million to pay your own. Drafting defense player makers for the defense coming years. Like you have with the offense.

I think the mindset of fans that aren't pro KC is take the money you'd be paying him and go get a bunch of free agents, to fix the defense. Well we all know that way doesn't work. Like you said, the future play makers for the defense aren't on the team yet. Most of them are most likely playing college right now.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I think the mindset of fans that aren't pro KC is take the money you'd be paying him and go get a bunch of free agents, to fix the defense. Well we all know that way doesn't work. Like you said, the future play makers for the defense aren't on the team yet. Most of them are most likely playing college right now.

I said it earlier in this thread.

We are 20 million above the cap. That's with Kirk contract this year. We pay him 19 mil or 20 next yr? We are still 20+ mil above the cap and that's before Garcon and Djax contracts are removed.

Scot isn't going to spend a bunch of money on the defense. He's going to use that money to pay our own. I personally see Kirk as our own. He's 11-5 in his last 16 games.

We will continue to draft BPA and build this team. We are 50/50 right now. We are always going to be 1-2 plays from being 10-6 or 7-9 . Just a few more years. We will be there.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Bucket

20 million is the going rate for QB'S like Kirk though. I don't understand how fans don't get this yet.

Kirk is winning games, and our team direction is going up with him at QB. I just don't see how you replace that with McCoy or an unknown. When you are 20 million above the cap, and have 2 WR out the door on contract years to add another 10 million to that.

You pay Kirk who knows the offense and winning games. 11-5 in last 16 games, and you use 30 million to pay your own. Drafting defense player makers for the defense coming years. Like you have with the offense.

I completely agree. Kirk, the player, is the right man for us at QB. Also, don't underestimate the value of Kirk, the man, to this team. His leadership on and off the field is helping to build this team. His public image is good for the franchise. This final point is key: Kirk has the motivation and character to continue to improve and give his all after he is paid the big bucks. The franchise can trust that he won't be spoiled by money and fame and lose his focus on doing the best job he can on the field. He's the whole package.

Yes, pay our own foundation players and build the defense, primarily through the draft. This was perfectly illustrated in our loss to the Lions. Kirk led us all the way back to take the lead with under 1 minute left but the D just didn't have the horses to hold it.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I'd go with McCoy at a much lower rate than give 24mil/yr to Kirk. I'd rather build a quality team with the extra money than dump into a QB that's proven to be average at this point. Kirk isn't our main problem, but he hasn't shown he's worthy of an extension either in my book.

You've got SolidSnake thinking you are talking straight from SM's playbook.

Our cap space is good next year, we have the 7th most cap space available, and next year before we sign KC we will have around 47mil, or the 6th most available with 44 players under contract (numbers from OTC) If you have a capable NFL qb, who knows your system you don't give it up for a longtime journeyman. Thats just not the way it works...

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

You've got SolidSnake thinking you are talking straight from SM's playbook.

Our cap space is good next year, we have the 7th most cap space available, and next year before we sign KC we will have around 47mil, or the 6th most available with 44 players under contract (numbers from OTC) If you have a capable NFL qb, who knows your system you don't give it up for a longtime journeyman. Thats just not the way it works...

The Ravens and Bears said the same thing. Now they are regretting much of those QB deals. KC still has the rest of the year to win me over on a long term deal, but I wouldn't give him anything remotely close to 20mil/year at this current stage. I will always have this mindset when it comes to salary vs talent in a salary cap system.