(Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

good post...I just think there's two heads to this coin though.

Of course there is, but it just seems like the LaVar supporters are so convinced there is no logical reason as to why he's not playing.

There needs to be a middle ground. There are great arguments to both sides.

I've said that it's hard to think he couldn't at the least be helping out in 3rd downs as a DE. Perhaps this is where the punishment side comes in to play. I do think that the coaches aren't happy with how outspoken LaVar has been at times, and they're sending him a message that he needs to shut the heck up. Gibbs' teams have always been built around the notion that the team comes first... they're obviously not convinced he's bought in to this hook, line and sinker.

It's interesting to look back on when Lewis ran the D. The common thought at that time was that Lewis was trying to make LaVar a more well rounded player, when it now appears he was trying to hide his deficiencies as a LB by putting him at DE where he could least hurt the overall scheme. Lewis clearly did not trust his coverage abilities and his willingness to play within the system, so he stuck him at DE and let him "freelance" there where it wouldn't hurt the D.

[hail_2_da_skins]

Greg Williams has a very good defensive scheme but he needs to get off his high-horse about this Levar Arrington issue. He needs to give Levar an opportunity to win back his starting position. Sitting on the bench is not going to get it. He puts Clemons in on 3rd down situations and I'm not seeing any preesure from him. Why not Levar? The worst he could do is not put pressure on the quarterback, just like Clemons. I think its personal. If he puts Levar in and he makes a big play, the excuses for not playing him cease. Thats Williams biggest fear. Put Levar into the game! The fan reaction will let you know where the fans stand. It will be one of the biggest roars! FREE LEVAR!

[Kope]

This is what I was wondering: Given Williams proven worth, LaVar's proven playmaking ability and LaVar's (not proven 'cause we don't know what his assignment is for a given play ... but there is enough circumstantial eveidence) freelancing - the only thing that I see that parallels LAs reduction of playing time is our corners being hurt.

That would lead me to deduce that Williams is unwilling to take any additional risk with out having Springs and Harris healthy. The other side of this assessment is that after Rodgers we are weak enough at CB that Williams dosent feel he has the flexibilty to gamble.

I have thought our recent weakness to the big play has been due to having Springs and/or Harris out for the past three weeks. It will be very interesting to see if when they are both healthy how we fair vs the big play. If I had to guess, LA's playing time will follow our CB's health until he get more discipline.

BTW- LA showed an attitide far different even from the begining of the year on the John Thompsen show. Props to LA for maturing.

[#56fanatic]

I think a pretty good example of this situation is to compare what Lawrence Taylor use to do with the Giants. In no way am I comparing the two as far on the field performance, but this is what we drafted LaVar to be. A difference maker. Now we all know what a head case LT use to be in his day , and what a freelancing person he was. He would line up over the end and go get who ever had the ball. I know as a skins fan, I use to hate playing the Giants then because of LT. that is what teams USE to do with us, and it was just LaVar. Now you have Washington and Taylor with him. What a nightmare it would be to plan against 3 quality playmakers. I would think, that as much of a "genious" GW has been made out to be, he would utilize this rate talent (6-4, 250lbs or so, and runs like a safety and hits like a truck) to the best of the teams ability.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Kope

This is what I was wondering: Given Williams proven worth, LaVar's proven playmaking ability and LaVar's (not proven 'cause we don't know what his assignment is for a given play ... but there is enough circumstantial eveidence) freelancing - the only thing that I see that parallels LAs reduction of playing time is our corners being hurt.

That would lead me to deduce that Williams is unwilling to take any additional risk with out having Springs and Harris healthy. The other side of this assessment is that after Rodgers we are weak enough at CB that Williams dosent feel he has the flexibilty to gamble.

I have thought our recent weakness to the big play has been due to having Springs and/or Harris out for the past three weeks. It will be very interesting to see if when they are both healthy how we fair vs the big play. If I had to guess, LA's playing time will follow our CB's health until he get more discipline.

BTW- LA showed an attitide far different even from the begining of the year on the John Thompsen show. Props to LA for maturing.

Great point that holds a lot of merit.

Bravo for a level headed post.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Kope

This is what I was wondering: Given Williams proven worth, LaVar's proven playmaking ability and LaVar's (not proven 'cause we don't know what his assignment is for a given play ... but there is enough circumstantial eveidence) freelancing - the only thing that I see that parallels LAs reduction of playing time is our corners being hurt.

That would lead me to deduce that Williams is unwilling to take any additional risk with out having Springs and Harris healthy. The other side of this assessment is that after Rodgers we are weak enough at CB that Williams dosent feel he has the flexibilty to gamble.

I have thought our recent weakness to the big play has been due to having Springs and/or Harris out for the past three weeks. It will be very interesting to see if when they are both healthy how we fair vs the big play. If I had to guess, LA's playing time will follow our CB's health until he get more discipline.

BTW- LA showed an attitide far different even from the begining of the year on the John Thompsen show. Props to LA for maturing.

Makes perfect sense to me. Having Springs back will give us a big lift..not to mention Clark as well. Once our secondary is healthy again, then I can definitely understand taking some chances at LB.

Funny, but for all the newly acquired Gregg Williams haters, take away those three big plays and look how solid this defense has been WITHOUT Lavar Arrington.

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Makes perfect sense to me. Having Springs back will give us a big lift..not to mention Clark as well. Once our secondary is healthy again, then I can definitely understand taking some chances at LB.

Funny, but for all the newly acquired Gregg Williams haters, take away those three big plays and look how solid this defense has been WITHOUT Lavar Arrington.

Good defense but 2 losses in a row as the offense is playing better..they never gave up big plays last year... Solid yeah but teams are making bigger plays each week... they have no qb pressure whatso ever.... isn't that how he made his name???? Qb's have all day back there... we haven't seen any great qb's wait till u see the Mc Nabb's and Mannings and such you give those boys all day back there they will eat ur A_s Alive... your secondary just cant cover that long...but i will give those incredible Lb's a positive they are in their proper spots... and they are there on on the ground as they run by their butts too!!! I wanna see some folks run over Lavar.... yeah right!!!!!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

Good defense but 2 losses in a row as the offense is playing better..they never gave up big plays last year... Solid yeah but teams are making bigger plays each week... they have no qb pressure whatso ever.... isn't that how he made his name???? Qb's have all day back there... we haven't seen any great qb's wait till u see the Mc Nabb's and Mannings and such you give those boys all day back there they will eat ur A_s Alive... your secondary just cant cover that long...but i will give those incredible Lb's a positive they are in their proper spots... and they are there on on the ground as they run by their butts too!!! I wanna see some folks run over Lavar.... yeah right!!!!!

I agree but you have to remember with those two losses the O gave up 4 Turn overs 2 in our red zone. Teams did make some big plays on us last year (remember that Dallas Game).

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by hail_2_da_skins

Greg Williams has a very good defensive scheme but he needs to get off his high-horse about this Levar Arrington issue. He needs to give Levar an opportunity to win back his starting position. Sitting on the bench is not going to get it. He puts Clemons in on 3rd down situations and I'm not seeing any preesure from him. Why not Levar? The worst he could do is not put pressure on the quarterback, just like Clemons. I think its personal. If he puts Levar in and he makes a big play, the excuses for not playing him cease. Thats Williams biggest fear. Put Levar into the game! The fan reaction will let you know where the fans stand. It will be one of the biggest roars! FREE LEVAR!

Thats the best one I've read yet. Williams won't play Lavar because he is scared Lavar is going to make a big play for the team. I think your on to something, now we know why they didn't let Ramsey back in the game because they were scared he might make a big play. Hall's not hurt either they are just scared he might make a big play.

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by hail_2_da_skins

Greg Williams has a very good defensive scheme but he needs to get off his high-horse about this Levar Arrington issue. He needs to give Levar an opportunity to win back his starting position. Sitting on the bench is not going to get it. He puts Clemons in on 3rd down situations and I'm not seeing any preesure from him. Why not Levar? The worst he could do is not put pressure on the quarterback, just like Clemons. I think its personal. If he puts Levar in and he makes a big play, the excuses for not playing him cease. Thats Williams biggest fear. Put Levar into the game! The fan reaction will let you know where the fans stand. It will be one of the biggest roars! FREE LEVAR!

DEAD ON!!!!!! he has put his silly little pride ahead of winning....

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Of course there is, but it just seems like the LaVar supporters are so convinced there is no logical reason as to why he's not playing.

There needs to be a middle ground. There are great arguments to both sides.

I've said that it's hard to think he couldn't at the least be helping out in 3rd downs as a DE. Perhaps this is where the punishment side comes in to play. I do think that the coaches aren't happy with how outspoken LaVar has been at times, and they're sending him a message that he needs to shut the heck up. Gibbs' teams have always been built around the notion that the team comes first... they're obviously not convinced he's bought in to this hook, line and sinker.

It's interesting to look back on when Lewis ran the D. The common thought at that time was that Lewis was trying to make LaVar a more well rounded player, when it now appears he was trying to hide his deficiencies as a LB by putting him at DE where he could least hurt the overall scheme. Lewis clearly did not trust his coverage abilities and his willingness to play within the system, so he stuck him at DE and let him "freelance" there where it wouldn't hurt the D.

Maybe with him asking to not talk about his playing time on the last show he was interviewed on, he's starting to compromise with the coaching staff (I can only hope).

[MTK]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Maybe with him asking to not talk about his playing time on the last show he was interviewed on, he's starting to compromise with the coaching staff (I can only hope).

That's what I'm thinking too, perhaps he's finally getting it that he needs to shut the hell up.

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

That's what I'm thinking too, perhaps he's finally getting it that he needs to shut the hell up.

Would you be able to shut the HELL UP??? I dont think he should at all....this williams is a little dictator..I don't give a damn what he says having LaVar on the bench while scrubs that other teams didnt want start in front of him as he sits on the bench is crazy beyond belief!!!!!!!!!!

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Of course there is, but it just seems like the LaVar supporters are so convinced there is no logical reason as to why he's not playing.

There needs to be a middle ground. There are great arguments to both sides.

I've said that it's hard to think he couldn't at the least be helping out in 3rd downs as a DE. Perhaps this is where the punishment side comes in to play. I do think that the coaches aren't happy with how outspoken LaVar has been at times, and they're sending him a message that he needs to shut the heck up. Gibbs' teams have always been built around the notion that the team comes first... they're obviously not convinced he's bought in to this hook, line and sinker.

It's interesting to look back on when Lewis ran the D. The common thought at that time was that Lewis was trying to make LaVar a more well rounded player, when it now appears he was trying to hide his deficiencies as a LB by putting him at DE where he could least hurt the overall scheme. Lewis clearly did not trust his coverage abilities and his willingness to play within the system, so he stuck him at DE and let him "freelance" there where it wouldn't hurt the D.

I dunno, when coaches are so adamant about the "system" and don't adjust to their players I think they set themselves up for failure. I love GW's system, but wouldn't it work better with better players? That's why I think it's personal, if you're going to put a linebacker at rush end why go with Clemons over Arrington? Plenty of guys have missed assignments, but normally when LaVar does the quarterback ends up paying for it rather than the Skins. All home run hitters strike out sometime, but don't the ends (increased qb pressure -> increased turnovers -> increased wins) justify the means.

I think everything I've heard from Arrington suggests he's a team guy, and I remain convinced that his role will increase this season. Hopefully the coaches don't wait until it's too late.