(Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams

[jamf]

sorry for the double post, but

would the redskins have won a superbowl if they benched riggins?

what about gary clark, alvin walton, dexter manley, wilber marshall....

i know its hard to freelance on offence, clark and riggins were characters that did their own thing at times and came up huge in the clutch.


i understand the whole concept of a "team scheme" but no one will tell me that Phillip daniels and Wynn are better defensive ends on 3rd and 10 than lavar. you cant waste that kind of talent. if he is a free lancer, atleast use him on situations where he has one role(KILL THE GOD DAMN QUARTERBACK).

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by jamf

sorry for the double post, but

would the redskins have won a superbowl if they benched riggins?

what about gary clark, alvin walton, dexter manley, wilber marshall....

i know its hard to freelance on offence, clark and riggins were characters that did their own thing at times and came up huge in the clutch.


i understand the whole concept of a "team scheme" but no one will tell me that Phillip daniels and Wynn are better defensive ends on 3rd and 10 than lavar. you cant waste that kind of talent. if he is a free lancer, atleast use him on situations where he has one role(KILL THE GOD DAMN QUARTERBACK).

I am glad you said this, when Gibbs wanted Riggins everyone was worried about his attitude the its my way or no way. And Gibbs has always had the knack of getting through to players that in others peoples eyes are trouble. Dexter Manley is a prime example. Former player always say what a great motivator Gibbs is, he gets the most and even more for players.
Another good point was the guy that said Holdman is so bad that if he is in position, his ass is getting blown up and taken out of the play. That has been my sticking point with all this crap. Who cares if Holdman is in position, the fact is he has 12 FREAKIN TACKLES in 5 games,(and not only him)but majority of the big plays we are giving up, the screen, some of the long runs in the Seattle game, Denver and KC all have been to the right side of defense. I am not saying LaVar would have stopped them all, but I would bet he would have stopped more big plays than sorry ass Holdman has. Again, 12 tackles in 5 games, thats being in position!! LaVar last year in first two games, 15 tackles, 1 sack, thats being out of position!!.

[12thMan]

This whole "freelance" thing is way out of proportion, IMO. Does he freelance? Sure he does. Really, has LaVar become so inept that he can't get in on one down for two consecutive games?

We've gone through a page thread explaining and giving theories on why a Pro-Bowl linebacker won't play because he can't play within or pick-up the system.

I love Gregg Williams and coach Gibbs....but is LaVar that incapable?

[MTK]

From PFW: http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW...m?mode=nfceast

Some very revealing thoughts from a personnel director to PFW on the LaVar Arrington situation: “The key to Gregg Williams’ defense is discipline. The only way that unit can win is if everyone is playing 100 percent disciplined football. They have a few core guys — Sean Taylor, Marcus Washington, Cornelius Griffin, Shawn Springs — but the rest are just role players. LaVar’s problem is that he has never been disciplined. He has never been a worker. He’s a street player who doesn’t study. If you surround him with enough good players, he can fit into your defense. But the Redskins’ defensive coaching staff is a very talented group. Greg Blache is an excellent defensive line coach. (DB coach) DeWayne Walker is an outstanding teacher. They are all very good teachers. They preach fundamentals and have their guys in the right position.” And this: “LaVar has been told countless times what he needs to do. Instead, he is running his mouth in the media. Shut your mouth and open up your playbook. Show some awareness. Know where you fit. Know where to line up. When he recognizes he is just a cog in the wheel, not the wheel he has always saw himself as being and thinks he is — he’ll see the field. Until he proves he won’t make any mental mistakes, all he’ll be is the miserable malcontent he has been all year. And to be frank, if he doesn’t shut his mouth, he may be subjected to the treatment Keyshawn Johnson was a couple of years ago.” Johnson was suspended by the Buccaneers for the final six games of the 2003 season for disciplinary reasons.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

From PFW: http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW...m?mode=nfceast

good post...I just think there's two heads to this coin though.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

good post...I just think there's two heads to this coin though.

Of course there is, but it just seems like the LaVar supporters are so convinced there is no logical reason as to why he's not playing.

There needs to be a middle ground. There are great arguments to both sides.

I've said that it's hard to think he couldn't at the least be helping out in 3rd downs as a DE. Perhaps this is where the punishment side comes in to play. I do think that the coaches aren't happy with how outspoken LaVar has been at times, and they're sending him a message that he needs to shut the heck up. Gibbs' teams have always been built around the notion that the team comes first... they're obviously not convinced he's bought in to this hook, line and sinker.

It's interesting to look back on when Lewis ran the D. The common thought at that time was that Lewis was trying to make LaVar a more well rounded player, when it now appears he was trying to hide his deficiencies as a LB by putting him at DE where he could least hurt the overall scheme. Lewis clearly did not trust his coverage abilities and his willingness to play within the system, so he stuck him at DE and let him "freelance" there where it wouldn't hurt the D.

[hail_2_da_skins]

Greg Williams has a very good defensive scheme but he needs to get off his high-horse about this Levar Arrington issue. He needs to give Levar an opportunity to win back his starting position. Sitting on the bench is not going to get it. He puts Clemons in on 3rd down situations and I'm not seeing any preesure from him. Why not Levar? The worst he could do is not put pressure on the quarterback, just like Clemons. I think its personal. If he puts Levar in and he makes a big play, the excuses for not playing him cease. Thats Williams biggest fear. Put Levar into the game! The fan reaction will let you know where the fans stand. It will be one of the biggest roars! FREE LEVAR!

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by jacobyfan

Can you provide a reference for this?

I read earlier in the year that GW was making noise about becoming a head coach, but haven't been able to find the article. Without any reference, it just becomes my personal opinion.

I can see how LaVar's freelancing might hurt the team, and GW is extremely anal about players sticking to their assignments. Hopefully the coaches find some middle ground in the coming weeks, after going 3-1 in our first four game stretch and already 0-1 going into the 2nd quarter of our season we've got to find a way to force some turnovers to give our offense a short field and better opportunities to score points. But it's up to the coaches to decide who plays, so I'll just keep on hoping that LaVar does whatever he has to do to hit the field because I think he can make a difference.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Of course there is, but it just seems like the LaVar supporters are so convinced there is no logical reason as to why he's not playing.

There needs to be a middle ground. There are great arguments to both sides.

I've said that it's hard to think he couldn't at the least be helping out in 3rd downs as a DE. Perhaps this is where the punishment side comes in to play. I do think that the coaches aren't happy with how outspoken LaVar has been at times, and they're sending him a message that he needs to shut the heck up. Gibbs' teams have always been built around the notion that the team comes first... they're obviously not convinced he's bought in to this hook, line and sinker.

It's interesting to look back on when Lewis ran the D. The common thought at that time was that Lewis was trying to make LaVar a more well rounded player, when it now appears he was trying to hide his deficiencies as a LB by putting him at DE where he could least hurt the overall scheme. Lewis clearly did not trust his coverage abilities and his willingness to play within the system, so he stuck him at DE and let him "freelance" there where it wouldn't hurt the D.

Maybe with him asking to not talk about his playing time on the last show he was interviewed on, he's starting to compromise with the coaching staff (I can only hope).

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Of course there is, but it just seems like the LaVar supporters are so convinced there is no logical reason as to why he's not playing.

There needs to be a middle ground. There are great arguments to both sides.

I've said that it's hard to think he couldn't at the least be helping out in 3rd downs as a DE. Perhaps this is where the punishment side comes in to play. I do think that the coaches aren't happy with how outspoken LaVar has been at times, and they're sending him a message that he needs to shut the heck up. Gibbs' teams have always been built around the notion that the team comes first... they're obviously not convinced he's bought in to this hook, line and sinker.

It's interesting to look back on when Lewis ran the D. The common thought at that time was that Lewis was trying to make LaVar a more well rounded player, when it now appears he was trying to hide his deficiencies as a LB by putting him at DE where he could least hurt the overall scheme. Lewis clearly did not trust his coverage abilities and his willingness to play within the system, so he stuck him at DE and let him "freelance" there where it wouldn't hurt the D.

I dunno, when coaches are so adamant about the "system" and don't adjust to their players I think they set themselves up for failure. I love GW's system, but wouldn't it work better with better players? That's why I think it's personal, if you're going to put a linebacker at rush end why go with Clemons over Arrington? Plenty of guys have missed assignments, but normally when LaVar does the quarterback ends up paying for it rather than the Skins. All home run hitters strike out sometime, but don't the ends (increased qb pressure -> increased turnovers -> increased wins) justify the means.

I think everything I've heard from Arrington suggests he's a team guy, and I remain convinced that his role will increase this season. Hopefully the coaches don't wait until it's too late.

[Riggo44]

Yea I really don,t get it. How can Lavar just sit there. There has to be somthing he can d to help our D.
G.W and J.G are trying to show the team,league and Arrington that this is a new era with the Redskins and they call ALL the shots period.(Logic being.If they can bench Lavar with his fat contract.They can bench anyone!So you better watch your ASS!) I agree with the concept. I just hope there not hurting the team's win loss record this season in the process.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Maybe with him asking to not talk about his playing time on the last show he was interviewed on, he's starting to compromise with the coaching staff (I can only hope).

That's what I'm thinking too, perhaps he's finally getting it that he needs to shut the hell up.

[Kope]

This is what I was wondering: Given Williams proven worth, LaVar's proven playmaking ability and LaVar's (not proven 'cause we don't know what his assignment is for a given play ... but there is enough circumstantial eveidence) freelancing - the only thing that I see that parallels LAs reduction of playing time is our corners being hurt.

That would lead me to deduce that Williams is unwilling to take any additional risk with out having Springs and Harris healthy. The other side of this assessment is that after Rodgers we are weak enough at CB that Williams dosent feel he has the flexibilty to gamble.

I have thought our recent weakness to the big play has been due to having Springs and/or Harris out for the past three weeks. It will be very interesting to see if when they are both healthy how we fair vs the big play. If I had to guess, LA's playing time will follow our CB's health until he get more discipline.

BTW- LA showed an attitide far different even from the begining of the year on the John Thompsen show. Props to LA for maturing.

[#56fanatic]

I think a pretty good example of this situation is to compare what Lawrence Taylor use to do with the Giants. In no way am I comparing the two as far on the field performance, but this is what we drafted LaVar to be. A difference maker. Now we all know what a head case LT use to be in his day , and what a freelancing person he was. He would line up over the end and go get who ever had the ball. I know as a skins fan, I use to hate playing the Giants then because of LT. that is what teams USE to do with us, and it was just LaVar. Now you have Washington and Taylor with him. What a nightmare it would be to plan against 3 quality playmakers. I would think, that as much of a "genious" GW has been made out to be, he would utilize this rate talent (6-4, 250lbs or so, and runs like a safety and hits like a truck) to the best of the teams ability.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by hail_2_da_skins

Greg Williams has a very good defensive scheme but he needs to get off his high-horse about this Levar Arrington issue. He needs to give Levar an opportunity to win back his starting position. Sitting on the bench is not going to get it. He puts Clemons in on 3rd down situations and I'm not seeing any preesure from him. Why not Levar? The worst he could do is not put pressure on the quarterback, just like Clemons. I think its personal. If he puts Levar in and he makes a big play, the excuses for not playing him cease. Thats Williams biggest fear. Put Levar into the game! The fan reaction will let you know where the fans stand. It will be one of the biggest roars! FREE LEVAR!

Thats the best one I've read yet. Williams won't play Lavar because he is scared Lavar is going to make a big play for the team. I think your on to something, now we know why they didn't let Ramsey back in the game because they were scared he might make a big play. Hall's not hurt either they are just scared he might make a big play.