The Anti-Media Media

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by saden1

Couldn’t agree more. Journalism requires objectivity and a fan covering his own team reeks of conflict of interest. Then again you have people like Pastabelly who have no objectivity whatsoever when it comes to the Skins.

The entire point is that it's not objective. Tell me when the Redskins have ever tried to pass ExtremeSkins off as a source of objective information???

The Redskins promote it on Redskins.com as an unprecedented distribution channel for access to the team, that's it. I can't understand why people are insisting that ExtremeSkins be held to journalistic standards. Just because Snyder places them in the press box, that doesn't mean he thinks they're journalists.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The entire point is that it's not objective. Tell me when the Redskins have ever tried to pass ExtremeSkins off as a source of objective information???

The Redskins promote it on Redskins.com as an unprecedented distribution channel for access to the team, that's it. I can't understand why people are insisting that ExtremeSkins be held to journalistic standards. Just because Snyder places them in the press box, that doesn't mean he thinks they're journalists.

No one is saying they our journalists. But they are going into a professional setting and acting like asses. I'm sure at your work, with whatever you do, if I'm hired as a maintence guy or somthing and put in your office for the day and am jumping up and down screaming, you'd be pissed off too. They are getting paid to go into a professional setting, and acting like jackasses. Bottom line.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

No one is saying they our journalists. But they are going into a professional setting and acting like asses. I'm sure at your work, with whatever you do, if I'm hired as a maintence guy or somthing and put in your office for the day and am jumping up and down screaming, you'd be pissed off too. They are getting paid to go into a professional setting, and acting like jackasses. Bottom line.

So? Why would we care about that? Sure, OK, it's a dick move and unprofessional. So what?

Could it be that some people here at the Warpath are a wee bit jealous of the guys at ExtremeSkins? Is that why we're upset that they disturbed the journalists while they were writing?

I don't get the beef. I don't see why anyone here would care if someone is in the press box yelling and disturbing anybody.

[Tarhog]

Joe - we met while covering minicamp this Summer. I enjoyed chatting with you, and believe you're a good guy. I understand your bitterness here (and I don't use that as a loaded word, just an honest one). You have no doubt done a great job over the years covering all things Redskins. By the same token, the staff at extreme (of which I'm obviously one) have been hard at it for 5+ years as well, funding a growing site out of our own pockets, and like you, spending countless hours to provide a quality place for Redskins fans to hang. This was the chance of a lifetime for us, and after a lot of careful consideration, we jumped at it, as we believe any of you would have.

There are a lot of half-truths in play here. First of all, we are not employees of the Redskins. Period. Although its likely we could have gotten a 'payday' from the team, we chose instead to bargain for access, because it was something we could share with our members. The team does not tell us what members can and cannot say. They let us run the site as we always have. Thats a fact.

The article in question is misleading. We have never, ever pretended to be reporters. We are fans. And its that reference point that drives everything we do. Have we cheered in the pressbox? Yes. For a sum total of 5-10 seconds during the stunning Redskins comeback in Dallas, two of our staff made some noise. I think most fans understand losing control in an emotional moment like that and would hardly characterize that as somehow ominous or terrible. I've personally covered 3 of the 5 games, and haven't uttered a peep. Not once. The vast majority of our time (probably > 95%) has been spent on the field, not even in the pressbox. We have done our job professionally, politely, and unobtrusively. The idea that we've been a distraction to members of the media in the pressbox is worse than insinuation - its an outright lie, and one I sincerely believe you would not want to perpetuate.

Finally, if we're part of a Redskins anti-media conspiracy, someone forgot to invite me to the planning sessions. We bash the skins right along with our regular members on whats now the offical messageboard. No one from the Redskins has said a peep to us about it. Not once. Extremeskins is not much different than it ever was. Personally, I have nothing but respect for the pro media guys. I've said so repeatedly and publically, and in person when I've had the chance to meet class acts like Bram Weinstein, Nunyo, Jason C., others.

I like what you produce, as I've told you before - I just think maybe you're getting some bad information along the way. Nothing but respect for you and the Warpath. But give the 'other guys' some credit. We didn't get where we are by being mindless idiots.

Best of luck!

[Tarhog]

Btw, I'm seriously disappointed that some of you here don't even think of giving us the benefit of the doubt, and leap to the assumption that everything you've 'read' is accurate.

Its not.

And if you knew the truth in this case, you'd feel pretty sheepish about slamming us for it.

I have an advantage in stating my opinion here. I actually know what I'm talking about. Unlike the author and those throwing grenades.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Tarhog

Joe - we met while covering minicamp this Summer. I enjoyed chatting with you, and believe you're a good guy. I understand your bitterness here (and I don't use that as a loaded word, just an honest one). You have no doubt done a great job over the years covering all things Redskins. By the same token, the staff at extreme (of which I'm obviously one) have been hard at it for 5+ years as well, funding a growing site out of our own pockets, and like you, spending countless hours to provide a quality place for Redskins fans to hang. This was the chance of a lifetime for us, and after a lot of careful consideration, we jumped at it, as we believe any of you would have.

There are a lot of half-truths in play here. First of all, we are not employees of the Redskins. Period. Although its likely we could have gotten a 'payday' from the team, we chose instead to bargain for access, because it was something we could share with our members. The team does not tell us what members can and cannot say. They let us run the site as we always have. Thats a fact.

The article in question is misleading. We have never, ever pretended to be reporters. We are fans. And its that reference point that drives everything we do. Have we cheered in the pressbox? Yes. For a sum total of 5-10 seconds during the stunning Redskins comeback in Dallas, two of our staff made some noise. I think most fans understand losing control in an emotional moment like that and would hardly characterize that as somehow ominous or terrible. I've personally covered 3 of the 5 games, and haven't uttered a peep. Not once. The vast majority of our time (probably > 95%) has been spent on the field, not even in the pressbox. We have done our job professionally, politely, and unobtrusively. The idea that we've been a distraction to members of the media in the pressbox is worse than insinuation - its an outright lie, and one I sincerely believe you would not want to perpetuate.

Finally, if we're part of a Redskins anti-media conspiracy, someone forgot to invite me to the planning sessions. We bash the skins right along with our regular members on whats now the offical messageboard. No one from the Redskins has said a peep to us about it. Not once. Extremeskins is not much different than it ever was. Personally, I have nothing but respect for the pro media guys. I've said so repeatedly and publically, and in person when I've had the chance to meet class acts like Bram Weinstein, Nunyo, Jason C., others.

I like what you produce, as I've told you before - I just think maybe you're getting some bad information along the way. Nothing but respect for you and the Warpath. But give the 'other guys' some credit. We didn't get where we are by being mindless idiots.

Best of luck!

Anybody think they'll be a another article explaining the other side of the story as Tarhog as explained it? I bet not...

I read the article again and it is obviously a hack job. The entire thing is full of loaded terms like 'bashing', 'anti-media', 'venom', etc... I could name 10 others.

Joe brings up obviously valid points. Cheering in the press box by journalists should be unacceptable. The question is should the exteremskins reps be treated as equals to the other journalists? Should they be held to the same standards and abide by the same rules? Well to me it seems obvious that the main stream media types don't consider them peers. So why is it that they seem to want them to abide by their rules? Is there no room for different types of 'journalism' here? I would totally and unabashedly agree with Joe if everyone was presenting the extremeskins guys as fair and balanced 'journalists' but no one has said this. They are reporting for a fan site. A fan site by defention means the readers by and large are supporters and tend to see the team through colored glasses. The reporting by association will be colored and everyone knows it and accepts it. Heck they expect it.

I think the real question needs to be should they be allowed in the press box? It seems this is the crux of the discussion regarding the media v. exteremskins. I say yes because to me mainstram media has done such a poor job of doing the job of reporting facts, being fair and offering a clear and honest representation of the entire story so many times I have lost respect for much of them. They do not in my opinion have the right to their own quiet little lair where they can't be trusted to be honest. If they could act in a true professional manner which did not impune their own integrity then I'd be willing to respect them a little more and give them a chance to do their job in peace but until then they get no such respect and have no right in my eyes to complain about anything.

as an aside:
Why is it that so many reporters seem to feel they always have the right to whatever they want (always in the name of a story) but never feel they need to answer for what they do (when they are often so wrong and/or biased)?

[56FAN]

the media can suck eggs for all i care. their opinions are no better than ours. and journalism has gotten to the point where it's less about fact and more about their opinion. that also is not just sports. this whole thing is pretty silly.The media has by and large forgotten it's place and is full of itself. that's why alot of other avenues for info are popping up. I'm mostly sick of this arrogant attitude they have that they are standard barrer's of what ever it is they are talking about. and most of the time they have never done what ever it is that they are talking about and yet they feel right to judge , condemn and chastise anyone they feel like. but woe to you if think you can chastise them for any reason.alot of hot air i would say. as far as this thing between snyder and the post ie media. i don't care, not my problem. but i have to say the media was in my doghouse long before snyder got here.

[MTK]

My only concern is how this reflects on Snyder's already shaky reputation with the media.

Now there's fans cheering on the team in the press box and this is obviously not sitting well with the media who already has it out for the Skins & Snyder, plus it's not going to do much for the image of fan sites in general.

It's certainly Snyder's prerogative who he wants to put in the press box, but they shouldn't be surprised when there is some backlash.

[BrudLee]

I'm wouldn't be surprised if Redskins' brass are posting anonymously on extreme - or here for that matter. It's a time tested practice. For example, I'm actually the ghost of Jack Kent Cooke.

If the Redskins muckety-mucks have decided that their time is best spent on chat boards writing far-fetched conspiracy theories about the way their team is viewed, then bully for them. In fact, I'd like an application, and I'll need to put in for back pay.

[EternalEnigma21]

But that's just it. There isn't always room for both. Just like joe losing his credentials and the only fan site allowed into training camp with media passes being extremeskins. The biggest thing to remember when you look at this, thought, is that all of the moderators/paid posters... whatever that are in the pressbox, are no longer objectable fans. They're employees.

[joecrisp]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

The biggest thing to remember when you look at this, thought, is that all of the moderators/paid posters... whatever that are in the pressbox, are no longer objectable fans. They're employees.

Exactly. As paid (or otherwise compensated) representatives of the team and presumably its fans, they should conduct themselves in a professional manner when they're in a professional setting. The pressbox is a professional environment where those present are expected to conduct themselves according to certain protocols so that everyone can observe the game free of the distractions associated with being in the general seating area among the fans.

If the fans the Redskins are inserting into that professional environment are unable to contain their enthusiasm for the game, perhaps they belong in the ample seating areas provided for fans to express themselves.

If Dan Snyder is so fond of these fellows, maybe he should invite them to sit with him in the owner's box.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by joecrisp

Exactly. As paid (or otherwise compensated) representatives of the team and presumably its fans, they should conduct themselves in a professional manner when they're in a professional setting. The pressbox is a professional environment where those present are expected to conduct themselves according to certain protocols so that everyone can observe the game free of the distractions associated with being in the general seating area among the fans.

If the fans the Redskins are inserting into that professional environment are unable to contain their enthusiasm for the game, perhaps they belong in the ample seating areas provided for fans to express themselves.

If Dan Snyder is so fond of these fellows, maybe he should invite them to sit with him in the owner's box.

Here's the thing though, they're not employees of the team. They're a separate business entity which is now owned by the team. The guys at ExtremeSkins don't toe the company line because they were bought out; they were bought out because they've been toeing the company line all along, and now the Redskins are taking advantage of it as a way to reach out to fans who want the enthusiastic approach. I don't think they are representatives of the team.

[joecrisp]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Here's the thing though, they're not employees of the team. They're a separate business entity which is now owned by the team. The guys at ExtremeSkins don't toe the company line because they were bought out; they were bought out because they've been toeing the company line all along, and now the Redskins are taking advantage of it as a way to reach out to fans who want the enthusiastic approach. I don't think they are representatives of the team.

They're representatives of the Official Message Board **OF** the Washington Redskins. That word "OF" is key here (thus the obnoxious little asterisks). That word implies ownership and possession. If they represent a smaller entity that belongs to a larger entity, do they not represent the larger entity as well? For example, if I worked for ESPN (one can dream, can't he?), would I not also be an employee-- and therefore a representative-- of Walt Disney?

Only in this case, the relationship is much more direct, and judging by the fringe benefits (and whatever other possibly unrevealed compensation) the Extremeskins staff is enjoying, I'd say they have quite a vested stake in their positive representation of the team. They've said it themselves: they'd be foolish to bite the hand that feeds them.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by joecrisp

They're representatives of the Official Message Board **OF** the Washington Redskins. That word "OF" is key here (thus the obnoxious little asterisks). That word implies ownership and possession. If they represent a smaller entity that belongs to a larger entity, do they not represent the larger entity as well? For example, if I worked for ESPN (one can dream, can't he?), would I not also be an employee-- and therefore a representative-- of Walt Disney?

Only in this case, the relationship is much more direct, and judging by the fringe benefits (and whatever other possibly unrevealed compensation) the Extremeskins staff is enjoying, I'd say they have quite a vested stake in their positive representation of the team. They've said it themselves: they'd be foolish to bite the hand that feeds them.

You're right, they would be foolish to bite the hand that feeds them. But they never intended to bite that hand when it wasn't feeding them. They've always been a rah rah bunch; by and large they've always been defenders of the Redskins and the front office. My point is that you can't sell out when you're already on their side.

And besides, they're giving the people what they want.

I still come here for good quality discussions, because an unaffiliated site brings the freedom to be more objective. But I like ExtremeSkins.com too, they play a cool role in giving access to the team, even though I know they're never going to ask Gibbs or Swanson or Snyder any hard-hitting questions.

There's a place for everyone.

[BigSKINBauer]

Originally Posted by joecrisp

Only in this case, the relationship is much more direct, and judging by the fringe benefits (and whatever other possibly unrevealed compensation) the Extremeskins staff is enjoying, I'd say they have quite a vested stake in their positive representation of the team. They've said it themselves: they'd be foolish to bite the hand that feeds them.

and that is why their articles are bullshit and reflect the opinions only of the fans that are happy with every move the team makes. I am still somewhat pissed about the aritcle that divided the fans up into two groups in the lavar issue and not only stating a differense in opinion but telling the fans what was the 100% right opinion and what was the "the world is flat" dumbass opinion. The REDSKINS shouldn't be allowing articles that divide the fan base on redskins.com
---------------
and speaking of danny boy deserving some respect. ESPN TEN MORE NFL TRUTHS


"5. Redskins owner Daniel Snyder deserves credit for allowing Joe Gibbs to bench LaVar Arrington.

You hear all the horror stories about Snyder's being a meddlesome owner who has ruined the Redskins. You never hear the good stuff.

How many NFL owners would let a guy they gave an eight-year, $80 million contract rot on the bench? Even if the guy was a stiff, most owners would demand that a player in Arrington's situation play simply because of the dollars involved.

Arrington, despite a 2004 knee injury, isn't a stiff. He can still do the things that made him a three-time Pro Bowler. Arrington just isn't "assignment sound" enough for Joe Gibbs and defensive coordinator Gregg Williams. Gibbs and Williams adopted the defensive approach that has been the mainstay of Bill Belichick's New England defenses. Belichick will sacrifice athleticism at linebacker for players who will always fill the right gap."