Recount Opinions

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

You won't see me defending much from Bush-Cheney. The last 16 years have been toxic in regards to the US political environment. And a lot of terrible laws have sprouted from that manure.

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Fair enough. I took your last statement more as "obama screwed up a good thing" than "obama had his chance to fix things".
My bad.
Edit: I think you are underestimating the toxicity and bullshit deals that started in 1980 with ole Ron, and Ill throw Clinton in that shit box too. Just so you know I dont give dems a pass.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Fair enough. I took your last statement more as "obama screwed up a good thing" than "obama had his chance to fix things".
My bad.

Definitely not the first. Bush Cheney epitomized alot of whatis stereotypically bad about conservatism. They made laws designed for the richest of the rich. Used their position to waste away a healthy budget in favor of a few. But pres Obama disregarded whole segments of the US, generally showed disdain for anything outside of his liberal social view and mostly smugly berated anyone who disagreed with his core beliefs.
So for 16 years about there has been a vast section of the US who first was betrayed by the republican core then derided by the democratic core. And you wonder why they don't believe word one out of either sides mouth. That's why Trump's calling out the republicans who wanted to gut the -ethics office.was just as cheered as when he calls out people from the liberal side of the equation.

He may very well turn out like you predict. I give him a 65/35 chance of actually affecting effective chance vs being a true charlatan and puppet. Not great odds but definitely better IMO than of a 100% chance of deepening the toxic swamp that is dc politics if we had continued either the bush wing or Clinton wing of us politics.

Most on here can disagree even vehemently over what the right course for the US going forward should be, I just think we all ought to agree that politics as divided as ours is can't be sustained for a long time and we all need to find the common ground which everyone can build up from. And the past 16 years ain't it.

I

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[punch it in]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Definitely not the first. Bush Cheney epitomized alot of whatis stereotypically bad about conservatism. They made laws designed for the richest of the rich. Used their position to waste away a healthy budget in favor of a few. But pres Obama disregarded whole segments of the US, generally showed disdain for anything outside of his liberal social view and mostly smugly berated anyone who disagreed with his core beliefs.
So for 16 years about there has been a vast section of the US who first was betrayed by the republican core then derided by the democratic core. And you wonder why they don't believe word one out of either sides mouth. That's why Trump's calling out the republicans who wanted to gut the -ethics office.was just as cheered as when he calls out people from the liberal side of the equation.

He may very well turn out like you predict. I give him a 65/35 chance of actually affecting effective chance vs being a true charlatan and puppet. Not great odds but definitely better IMO than of a 100% chance of deepening the toxic swamp that is dc politics if we had continued either the bush wing or Clinton wing of us politics.

Most on here can disagree even vehemently over what the right course for the US going forward should be, I just think we all ought to agree that politics as divided as ours is can't be sustained for a long time and we all need to find the common ground which everyone can build up from. And the past 16 years ain't it.

I

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I do not see smugness from Obama but I agree with most of this.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by punch it in

I do not see smugness from Obama but I agree with most of this.

I don't know how to phrase this, but in my opinion that "smugness" debate is all about what side of the aisle you're on. I never noticed that smugness either but then again I don't hate Obama. My coworkers have all pointed that out too, they think he has an attitude problem.

The problem I have with Trump supporters, based on my 3 immediate coworkers who are all die-hard supporters, is that they will defend him to the death on every point. Whereas they pounce on the Dems for every single slight, perceived or not.

Pussy grabbing:
Well, ya know, he said that 10 years ago. At some point you need to move on.

Defending himself on Twitter from everyday people that every President has had to put up with:
Well, ya know, you and the rest of the libs are just mad that he's willing to stand up for himself, because you're not used to that.

Building the wall:
Well, ya know, we gotta keep those freeloaders out. Of course there's ways to make Mexico pay for it. (Is there ways to make Mexico pay for it that don't make them a hostile threat to the immediate south?)

Shutting down the press room in the White House:
Well, ya know, he's just trying to fight the biased media that twists every word that comes out of his mouth (never mind the whole transparency argument)

My point is, when Obama is at fault, I don't sit here and act like everything he does is in my best interest, because it's not. I disagreed with him on the TPP bill, I semi-disagree with him on commuting Chelsea Manning's sentence, and I disagree with the extra powers he just gave to the intelligence agencies the week before he leaves office. But I ain't lying when I say my coworkers, and most of my friends on social media, have yet to disagree with a single policy, a single action, or a single anything he's done so far. All I get is "he won, you lost, get over it. We had to put up with Obama for 8 years, now it's our turn." It's like a war, and they are just mindless soldiers following company orders. Every single thing that comes out of the Dems is bad, and they need to be stopped. It's this hive-mind bs that is the real issue.

Speaking of real issues, about the only problem I have with Trump's stated plan so far is that he seems to have doubled down on deregulating everything environment related. It's pathetic that 90% of scientists are in agreement, and countries around the world are also in agreement, and yet there are still people that believe they should fight it to the death. They will be the death of us all.

4 years from now if Trump has made the EPA useless and deregulated everything in the name of corporate profit, he will essentially be flooring the gas on the car that is speeding to the destruction of our planet. Do baby boomers not give a shit about the planet because they'll be dead in 50 years, before climate change ever gets serious? I don't get it. If you think those billions of cars/trucks/trains/planes/ships/factories dating back to the industrial revolution aren't harming the environment, go stick your mouth on a tailpipe and tell me if you can safely breathe the air coming out of it. Keep in mind that's the filtered air too, it's most likely going through 2 catalytic converters to be cleaned up before it comes out the back.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Fair enough. I took your last statement more as "obama screwed up a good thing" than "obama had his chance to fix things".
My bad.
Edit: I think you are underestimating the toxicity and bullshit deals that started in 1980 with ole Ron, and Ill throw Clinton in that shit box too. Just so you know I dont give dems a pass.

If I had to pin it down I honestly think the toxicity started in Reagan's second term when he had started going a little senile. The clinton democrats and the bush conservatives saw it and both worked behind the scenes to gather their power bases.

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