Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah exactly, and here's the thing about McCloughan's comments. When you take Cousins's performance in a vacuum, I don't think he's too far off in saying he has hit his ceiling. Meaning Cousins's mobility, arm talent, mechanics, and accuracy are all pretty much maxed.

But that doesn't mean his production is maxed, and I think McCloughan would say the same.

If the Redskins get more consistent running, especially in short yardage situations, then Cousins's production should improve because he should reach the red zone more often. And if the Redskins get more out of their WRs in the red zone because of the improved size and hops at the position, that should lead to more TDs.

So Cousins could perform at his personal ceiling this year, yet put up 4900 yards and 32 TDs. It's a reminder that this is a team sport, and your production is at least partially dependent on those around you.

Rather than thinking about where his ceiling is, and what that's worth, I'd think about whether this team could win a title with him if we surround him with the right pieces. I believe it can. The defense is still a long way but I think he fits as a piece of a championship puzzle. If I were GM I'd be making a long term offer in the $22M - $23M range. Hopefully that's what they plan on doing in July.

How high would you go? I don't think he will sign for less than 24 maybe 25 would you go to 26 if that's what it took?

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[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

How high would you go? I don't think he will sign for less than 24 maybe 25 would you go to 26 if that's what it took?

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Well I guess I see that part of it differently. I really don't think he'll make a fuss over $25M or $23M per year, I think where he would get concerned is on the guaranteed portion. So far the Skins have been downright insulting on that side of it.

I think if you offer him 5 years $115M with $60M of it guaranteed, I think he takes it. I don't think he's out to milk the team out of every last dollar, he just wants the guarantee he deserves and that makes sense to sign a long termer instead of taking it year to year.

[SkinsGuru]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Well I guess I see that part of it differently. I really don't think he'll make a fuss over $25M or $23M per year, I think where he would get concerned is on the guaranteed portion. So far the Skins have been downright insulting on that side of it.

I think if you offer him 5 years $115M with $60M of it guaranteed, I think he takes it. I don't think he's out to milk the team out of every last dollar, he just wants the guarantee he deserves and that makes sense to sign a long termer instead of taking it year to year.

his agent said he wants 25 per and 75 gauranteed

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SkinsGuru

his agent said he wants 25 per and 75 gauranteed

Agents say a lot of things. If he insists on that much, and won't sign with us for any less, I would have to see what I could get in a trade, honestly.

But like I said, I truly think if it comes down to it, he won't try to suck every last dollar out. I do believe he wants to be here.

[SkinsGuru]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Agents say a lot of things. If he insists on that much, and won't sign with us for any less, I would have to see what I could get in a trade, honestly.

But like I said, I truly think if it comes down to it, he won't try to suck every last dollar out. I do believe he wants to be here.

i hope your right, but i am not counting on it . . . i know i wouldn't give a upper middle tier QB the highest paying contract in the history of the sport

[ethat001]

Originally Posted by SkinsGuru

i hope your right, but i am not counting on it . . . i know i wouldn't give a upper middle tier QB the highest paying contract in the history of the sport

Unfortunately that is exactly the way it works. You overpay for what you have, knowing that in a few years the salary cap inflation will make the contract seem less crazy.

Unfortunately, when you give a big QB contract, you hope that you can draft well to keep up with FA losses, since you can't afford to keep everyone. If you don't draft well, you end up like the Colts - wasting years of good QB play with a bad team.

[SkinsGuru]

Originally Posted by ethat001

Unfortunately that is exactly the way it works. You overpay for what you have, knowing that in a few years the salary cap inflation will make the contract seem less crazy.

Unfortunately, when you give a big QB contract, you hope that you can draft well to keep up with FA losses, since you can't afford to keep everyone. If you don't draft well, you end up like the Colts - wasting years of good QB play with a bad team.

i would agree if he was a top tier QB . . . he is NOT . . . never in the history of the NFL has a middle tier QB been the highest paid player ever . . . it will take many years before the middle tier QB's get paid that much.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by ethat001

Unfortunately that is exactly the way it works. You overpay for what you have, knowing that in a few years the salary cap inflation will make the contract seem less crazy.

Unfortunately, when you give a big QB contract, you hope that you can draft well to keep up with FA losses, since you can't afford to keep everyone. If you don't draft well, you end up like the Colts - wasting years of good QB play with a bad team.

People really don't understand the concept of inflation.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Well I guess I see that part of it differently. I really don't think he'll make a fuss over $25M or $23M per year, I think where he would get concerned is on the guaranteed portion. So far the Skins have been downright insulting on that side of it.

I think if you offer him 5 years $115M with $60M of it guaranteed, I think he takes it. I don't think he's out to milk the team out of every last dollar, he just wants the guarantee he deserves and that makes sense to sign a long termer instead of taking it year to year.

He is guaranteed 24M this year and barring injury and/or a complete breakdown of his game this year he is guaranteed a minimum of 29M (transition tag) next year. I think for him to sign a long term deal before July 15 the Skins would have to offer at least 75 guaranteed or basically 3 years at 24M. I also think he has very little desire to stay a Skin and would prefer to see where the free agent market would set his salary.

I think the contract KC would sign is in the range of Luck's contract. If the Skins offer a "fair" contract and he rejects it than I have no problem not paying him top 3 money for what his performance has been.

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[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

He is guaranteed 24M this year and barring injury and/or a complete breakdown of his game this year he is guaranteed a minimum of 29M (transition tag) next year. I think for him to sign a long term deal before July 15 the Skins would have to offer at least 75 guaranteed or basically 3 years at 24M. I also think he has very little desire to stay a Skin and would prefer to see where the free agent market would set his salary.

I think the contract KC would sign is in the range of Luck's contract. If the Skins offer a "fair" contract and he rejects it than I have no problem not paying him top 3 money for what his performance has been.

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I couldn't care less if the Skins were to overpay to keep Kirk Cousins. I don't care one iota how his contract compares to any other player's contract. They can pay him twice as much as Tom Brady makes for all I care. I just want them to sign him to a long-term contract.

We all know our history with QB's and, with that in mind, I have no desire to see the Skins gamble once again at that critical position. I believe that Kirk is good enough now to get us where we want to go and he gets even better every season.

To the Skins management I say this: "We have a QB we can win with for the next 5 to 10 years. That QB is Kirk Cousins. So just shut up and pay up!

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I couldn't care less if the Skins were to overpay to keep Kirk Cousins. I don't care one iota how his contract compares to any other player's contract. They can pay him twice as much as Tom Brady makes for all I care. I just want them to sign him to a long-term contract.

We all know our history with QB's and, with that in mind, I have no desire to see the Skins gamble once again at that critical position. I believe that Kirk is good enough now to get us where we want to go and he gets even better every season.

To the Skins management I say this: "We have a QB we can win with for the next 5 to 10 years. That QB is Kirk Cousins. So just shut up and pay up!

You will care when they can't afford to put anyone around him. That is the foundation of the argument. Is Kirk good enough that you can over pay him a bit and his talent makes up for the lost of potential players we could have had if not for his salary. B-more some what has that problem now with Joe F. and his contract.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by mredskins

You will care when they can't afford to put anyone around him. That is the foundation of the argument. Is Kirk good enough that you can over pay him a bit and his talent makes up for the lost of potential players we could have had if not for his salary. B-more some what has that problem now with Joe F. and his contract.

That's why you build through the draft.

Besides, it's all about the guaranteed money anyway. It looks to me that the Redskins management is trying to pull a fast one on the guaranteed amount to compensate for their own stupidity in signing Kirk to two franchise tag deals. That's about real money, not salary cap dollars.

There is no way that Kirk and his representatives are going to let the Skins make up for the $19M they paid him last season by trying to pay him a low guaranteed amount on a new long-term deal signed prior to this season. I'd guess that about 40% of any long-term deal would need to be guaranteed to get Kirk to sign.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

That's why you build through the draft.

Besides, it's all about the guaranteed money anyway. It looks to me that the Redskins management is trying to pull a fast one on the guaranteed amount to compensate for their own stupidity in signing Kirk to two franchise tag deals. That's about real money, not salary cap dollars.

There is no way that Kirk and his representatives are going to let the Skins make up for the $19M they paid him last season by trying to pay him a low guaranteed amount on a new long-term deal signed prior to this season. I'd guess that about 40% of any long-term deal would need to be guaranteed to get Kirk to sign.

Yeah build through the draft great, but look at the Saints. Drew Brees is giving them their money's worth, he's great, but there's no room for error. If you don't draft perfectly you have little recourse to make up for it.

I still think Cousins will sign as long as the offer is reasonable.