How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?

[VirgilTibbs]

I think it stays. It is a custom/tradition just like the flag salute in schools. However, a child cannot be forced to salute the flag or receive punishment/discpline if they do not (religious reasons etc.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_V...on_v._Barnette

The country is comprised of all types of people with differing backgrounds, religious and political views. Some come from military families, are die hard American patriots who believe you should die for and plege allegiance to your country.

Others are just just peaceful law abiding citizens who reside here, pay taxes but don't agree with some of the values of the country, injustice, history of wars and innocent bloodshed so they refuse to participate in customary traditions. They still honor and obey public officials, law enforcement, those in the military and the service they perform and respect and feel compassion for any and all loss of human life.

An individual should be able to have the right to choose based on their own personal beliefs whether or not to stand, sit, kneel, sing or not participate during such traditions that are included in the place of employment or at school without fear of losing their job or receiving discipline. As long as the individual is peaceful and their behavior is not noisy or disruptive to others around them who choose to participate.

Just remember, at one time people were actually killed for not saluting (Hitler).

[Chief X_Phackter]

Terrific. It only took 10 posts on this topic for someone to draw a line to Hitler.

[VirgilTibbs]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

Terrific. It only took 10 posts on this topic for someone to draw a line to Hitler.

The line was already drawn when the President just encouraged an employer to fire employees who refuse to align political views with his by standing for the national anthem. How far is the line from the next step of facing criminal charges and being thrown in jail? The line drawn to Hitler is more applicable than you think: Persecute those who don't fall in line.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by VirgilTibbs

The line was already drawn when the President just encouraged an employer to fire employees who refuse to align political views with his by standing for the national anthem. How far is the line from the next step of facing criminal charges and being thrown in jail? The line drawn to Hitler is more applicable than you think: Persecute those who don't fall in line.

It's not close. It's the First Amendment. It's everyone's right to do what ever they want during the National Anthem. The President's insensitive and divisive comments were, in my mind, a patriotic view rather than a political one. It was stupid, but far from Hitleresque. I personally am not a fan of using the National Anthem as a venue to bring attention to social injustice, but it is bringing attention. Hopefully we can soon get past HOW or WHEN people are protesting, and focus on WHY, and start actually doing something about the reasons...

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

It's not close. It's the First Amendment. It's everyone's right to do what ever they want during the National Anthem. The President's insensitive and divisive comments were, in my mind, a patriotic view rather than a political one. It was stupid, but far from Hitleresque. I personally am not a fan of using the National Anthem as a venue to bring attention to social injustice, but it is bringing attention. Hopefully we can soon get past HOW or WHEN people are protesting, and focus on WHY, and start actually doing something about the reasons...

CXP, I have respect for you, your service and your opinions, but I think what they are doing is extremely effective, especially given the attention from Trump. You know, if he hadn't said anything, there's a 50/50 shot that whole thing disappears into the wind when players realize it isn't making a difference. Instead, they got the largest polarizing voice in the world to draw attention to it, and now it's apparently spread like a virus. For the time being at least, it's going to get its' 15 minutes of fame. And that's a big win for the crowd.

Me personally, I don't feel like it's effective, but it is a fairly easy and non-violent way for the players to get their voices heard. Are we going to see a difference in the way police are trained as a result of this? Probably not. It's kinda insane to me that the military ROE are much stricter than police, given that police have to interact with communities every day and are on the front lines of gov't interaction with citizens. Right now they're taught to use force if they feel even slightly threatened, which I don't feel is working out given the continuous cycle of high profile incidents that keep drawing protests (whether right or wrong). If the military has to wait until fired upon to engage (with certain exceptions obviously) why does a cop have to wait until he/she feels even mildly threatened?

This problem is also compounded by how easily accessible video taping is nowadays. I'm sure these things still happened in the 80's/90's/etc. but back then it came down to an officer's word, nowadays a cop knows every action of theirs is likely to be scrutinized by their bodycam, or a bystander's camera. While that's a good thing for the public, it also increases the pressure on cops to act responsibly at all times. I personally just think some aren't trained enough to remain calm under pressure, which is admittedly tough to do. But that has to be one of the requirements for the job. In order to uphold the law effectively, they have to be held to a higher standard than a citizen. That includes justifying use of force. It should always be a last resort. Ultimately, I don't think there's an easy answer for this. But there is definitely room for improvement from my perspective.