Jay Gruden expected to return in 2018

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Honest question: Would Belichick, or Gibbs, accept their team taking it easy on a "meaningless" game? Not a game at the end of the season when they are resting their starters for the playoffs (wish we were that good, lol), but a game at the end of the season when we are out of the playoffs period?

The short answer is I don't know if they accepted it.

But it happened! (At least with Belichick in Cleveland)

When Belichick was the Browns head coach, his team lost the week 17 game 4 out of 5 years (from 1991 to 1995). In 1994 they made the playoffs and won the last game of the regular season.

There were fans in Cleveland saying at the time would Lombardi or Landry have accepted this?!?

I got tired of looking and have already invested more time into this discussion than I want to. You can look up Gibbs and Belichick's other stuff if you want.

Again, I don't think this "proves" anything, I just don't think it matters that much one way or the other.

I do think Belichick and Gibbs are great communicators and great at relating to the human animal. I also believe they are brilliant and would recognize that they have to be real with men, not college kids, about what is at stake in a meaningless week 17 game.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

The short answer is I don't know if they accepted it.

But it happened! (At least with Belichick in Cleveland)

When Belichick was the Browns head coach, his team lost the week 17 game 4 out of 5 years (from 1991 to 1995). In 1994 they made the playoffs and won the last game of the regular season.

There were fans in Cleveland saying at the time would Lombardi or Landry have accepted this?!?

I got tired of looking and have already invested more time into this discussion than I want to. You can look up Gibbs and Belichick's other stuff if you want.

Again, I don't think this "proves" anything, I just don't think it matters that much one way or the other.

I do think Belichick and Gibbs are great communicators and great at relating to the human animal. I also believe they are brilliant and would recognize that they have to be real with men, not college kids, about what is at stake in a meaningless week 17 game.

Saying that a bad team loses the final game 4 out of 5 times isn't proof the coach was sandbagging it. And one of those losing seasons was when the Browns relocation controversy was ongoing, not just a case of playing a normal "meaningless" game.

I liked Mike Shanahan's take on being in the middle of a losing season here in 2012: It was time for evaluations. He had to back off that statement publicly, but the original statement seemed like something he, Belichick, and Gibbs would say rather than let the team slide on a "meaningless" game.

Good teams don't sandbag games for draft picks, give up in games when playoffs are out of reach. They build a winning culture through the ups and downs.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by hailgreen28

saying that a bad team loses the final game 4 out of 5 times isn't proof the coach was sandbagging it. And one of those losing seasons was when the browns relocation controversy was ongoing, not just a case of playing a normal "meaningless" game.

I liked mike shanahan's take on being in the middle of a losing season here in 2012: It was time for evaluations. He had to back off that statement publicly, but the original statement seemed like something he, belichick, and gibbs would say rather than let the team slide on a "meaningless" game.

Good teams don't sandbag games for draft picks, give up in games when playoffs are out of reach. They build a winning culture through the ups and downs.

What is your solution? What action should the team take based on the week 17 giants game?

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

What is your solution? What action should the team take based on the week 17 giants game?

Same thing as every game. Make an evaluation in context with the other games. Don't just blow it off, and make sure the players know every game is important to building a winning culture. I agree with your post above. If you really need to inspire your players, you need different players.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

There were fans in Cleveland saying at the time would Lombardi or Landry have accepted this!







I do think Belichick and Gibbs are great communicators and great at relating to the human animal. I also believe they are brilliant and would recognize that they have to be real with men, not college kids, about what is at stake in a meaningless week 17 game.

Two things,

1) Fans root and speak from their heart,be it in love or anger ,very little actual knowledge is involved which is why it should be taken very lightly.


2) I agree with your opinion of both coachs but I look at it this way when those players are playing at a level were your coach is one of those two HOF coach's they are not "college kids" and should not have to be told,they are coach's not baby sitters.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Two things,

1) Fans root and speak from their heart,be it in love or anger ,very little actual knowledge is involved which is why it should be taken very lightly.


2) I agree with your opinion of both coachs but I look at it this way when those players are playing at a level were your coach is one of those two HOF coach's they are not "college kids" and should not have to be told,they are coach's not baby sitters.

Totally agree. If you need a coach to "inspire" players at the pro level, you need different players.

[skinsfaninok]

Source: Some Steelers limited partners want a coaching change – ProFootballTalk


If he hits the market, would you rather have Tomlin right now??

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...ayoff-debacle/

[mooby]

Yes, I would. It's not debatable either, Tomlin is better than Gruden.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by mooby

Yes, I would. It's not debatable either, Tomlin is better than Gruden.

Tomlin has been/is stacked with maybe the most talent in the league over the last 4 years...he's been a major disappointment.

And the fact he been talking about the Patriots like an obsession this year...I think its a terrible example to his team bc they turn around I did the same thing.

If Im a Pitttsturd fan, Im not happy with the Coach or the teams attitude.

[skinsfaninok]

Did Tomlin win with a team he built? I can't remember if that Cards game was with him there long enough?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Did Tomlin win with a team he built? I can't remember if that Cards game was with him there long enough?

Cowher retired after '06, Tomlin won the SB in his 2nd year with the team. I think that's enough time to give him credit for it.

S/N I also believe this discussion is pointless, even if Bill B. was on the market we wouldn't go after him due to Gruden's extension. Not sure it would sent the right message to the players either.

[Chico23231]

Ill say this, if Todd "the Tequila Cowboy" Haley gets let go, Id rather hire him than Tomlin.

[MTK]

Tomlin is definitely overrated, Steelers fans have wanted to move on for a while, granted fans always see their own situation in a much more negative light than outsiders do

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by MTK

Tomlin is definitely overrated, Steelers fans have wanted to move on for a while, granted fans always see their own situation in a much more negative light than outsiders do

116-60 record is very good but he is also in a historically bad division.

8-7 playoff record tells more of the story IMO, BUT He did win a SB (cowhers team) but still he did win one.

Jon Gruden didn't have this good a record and people think he's god.

Tomlin has also never had a losing season, that is even more impressive because Ben has missed games.

I'd take him over Jay in a heartbeat, he at least gambles more than not...

4&1 on the 40? Jay is punting 95% of the time.

Plus he's from VA, be kinda cool to have a coach from the area.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...es/TomlMi0.htm

[skinsfan69]

Tomlin and Jon Gruden are the two of the most overrated coaches in the history of the league. Gruden actually had a LOSING record his last 6 years in TB and yet he has had teams begging him to coach. I don't get it at all.

Tomlin should have been fired after the game Sun after the onside kick. You basically had 3 timeouts. All you had to do was stop that juggernaut offense of the Jags, get a 3 and out and get the ball back. These coaches sometimes just do the dumbest shit and choke just like the players do. Tomlin choked almost as worse as the Saints DB.