Basically, it all starts with Portis

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by jdlea

We're over .500 for the first time in a long time and we wanna cut everybody...pure genius. I have a question...was Portis overrated when we were 3 and 0? Did we waste money then?

Nobody's talking about CUTTING Clinton Portis. Some have simply observed the he has not exactly had the game-changing impact that many expected when we gave up Champ Bailey and a second round pick to get him. Outside of that one run against the Buccaneers on opening day last year, he's accomplished about as much as any other running back could have done for far less.

It's just another cog in the wheel of recklessly charging after high priced free agents at a time when most of us thought that strategy would cease with the cool-headed nature of Joe Gibbs calling the shots. Instead, we pay for moves like this without any depth at critical spots along both lines, while bargaining away draft picks year after year.

When the Skins were 3-0, Clinton Portis had 4.17 yards per carry and zero touchdowns. In eight games against NFC East opponents as a Redskin, he's been good for 3.6 yards per carry. That's an average performance, jdlea. That's not calling for him to be cut, that's calling it like it is.

Maybe it's just me, but considering what we parted with to get him, I guess I just expected more at this point.

Apparently, I was asking WAY too much.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Nobody's talking about CUTTING Clinton Portis. Some have simply observed the he has not exactly had the game-changing impact that many expected when we gave up Champ Bailey and a second round pick to get him. Outside of that one run against the Buccaneers on opening day last year, he's accomplished about as much as any other running back could have done for far less.

It's just another cog in the wheel of recklessly charging after high priced free agents at a time when most of us thought that strategy would cease with the cool-headed nature of Joe Gibbs calling the shots. Instead, we pay for moves like this without any depth at critical spots along both lines, while bargaining away draft picks year after year.

When the Skins were 3-0, Clinton Portis had 4.17 yards per carry and zero touchdowns. In eight games against NFC East opponents as a Redskin, he's been good for 3.6 yards per carry. That's an average performance, jdlea. That's not calling for him to be cut, that's calling it like it is.

Maybe it's just me, but considering what we parted with to get him, I guess I just expected more at this point.

Apparently, I was asking WAY too much.

Okay, my mistake...maybe not cut him, just bench him. There's plenty of people saying that. Plenty of people saying that he's not cut out for the offense and that Betts would be a better back. Also, Offiss wanted to gripe about how much everybody makes like it's stupid to pay people. I get the feeling if Offiss had it his way the Skins in the top 25 highest paid players in the league would be gone. So, IMO it seems like he wants him cut. If you didn't say cut him, my post didn't refer to you.

I didn't say Portis is the best back in the league, but he's a very good running back. The problem is Joe Gibbs didn't get the right back for his system. If Gibbs can't adapt to a speed back, that's his own fault.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by skin4Life28

Whats baffling about that list is that NE does not have one player in the top 25. Simply amazing how they handle there money and win superbowls.

They have done what Joe is attempting to do.......build a winner for some time to come. Obviously, Belichick knows his stuff

[hail_2_da_skins]

Look what a terrible defeat has done to these posts. Since the Skins have lost, now we should not have traded for Portis. Last time I checked, no running back can produce with four carries. Waive Robert Royal. He did drop over four passes but what are the alternatives. Royal had a bad game, the team had a bad game, move on.
Bench Holdman. Okay I agree with that. I'm tired of seeing 50 yard runs off left tackle. Brunnel holds onto the ball too long. From what I can tell, he was going through his progressions and no one was open in the time he was alloted. Late in the game the Giants disregarded the run and came after Brunnel and the situation got worse. There is nothing positive to say about this game. Forget about and move on. Concentrate on attacking the Eagles weaknesses. The Eagle game will say alot about whether the Skins are a playoff team or not.

[That Guy]

I mean, i've personally said letting pierce leave was a huge mistake almost every week (i also beat the brunnel trade to death, who knew? oh yeah, Gibbs), but some people seem to enjoy bashing anyone that gets over 4mill a year just because they're not #1 in the league.

Portis isn't LT, but i'd still put him in the top 10, and you might say he did horribly in this game, but LT also put up a 7 yard game recently, so it happens (And not just to us). Samuels isn't the best tackle, but he's not our worst lineman either, and good experienced Ol guys aren't easy to find.

We've got overpaid guys, but we're not alone in that. And just because they make a lot doesn't mean we can just toss them and plug in backup X and not see a huge dropoff, despite what some might think.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by That Guy

I mean, i've personally said letting pierce leave was a huge mistake almost every week (i also beat the brunnel trade to death, who knew? oh yeah, Gibbs), but some people seem to enjoy bashing anyone that gets over 4mill a year just because they're not #1 in the league.

Very good points. It does seem like a common theme on these boards to bash anyone that makes money. If a player making money is your biggest gripe, you should complain to Snyder, because even if he wasn't paying our current players big bucks, he'd be paying someone else.

The only person that has escaped this scrutiny so far this year is Santana Moss, and that's only because he leads the league in receiving. God forbid he has a few off weeks. Half the forum will be screaming that he's overrated and "isn't the gamechanger we thought he'd be".

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

The only person that has escaped this scrutiny so far this year is Santana Moss, and that's only because he leads the league in receiving. God forbid he has a few off weeks. Half the forum will be screaming that he's overrated and "isn't the gamechanger we thought he'd be".

I assume that quote is directed at me, since I have often said that Clinton Portis hasn't quite lived up to expectations.

By the way, Moss had a relatively 'quiet' day, maybe it's a 'bad game' by his standards with only 4 catches for 34 yards.

Did you hear me or anyone else calling for his head?

Right. I didn't think so.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I assume that quote is directed at me, since I have often said that Clinton Portis hasn't quite lived up to expectations.

By the way, Moss had a relatively 'quiet' day, maybe it's a 'bad game' by his standards with only 4 catches for 34 yards.

Did you hear me or anyone else calling for his head?

Right. I didn't think so.

Actually, I wasn't talking about any one person in particular, but if it was you that made that comment about Portis, that's probably where I got it. And my point with the Moss comment was just to point out that in general, the vibe on this board is a player is "overrated" if he's high payed and not performing in the top five at his position.

[Redskins_P]

Funny how Offiss shows up all of a sudden........after a loss.

Same ol story.......yawn.

[Daseal]

Haven't you picked up on this pattern yet?

After a loss that's when all the armchair GMs come out to play.

Boring and predictable.

How is that any different from your lack of opinion since Gibbs came into power matty? You were armchair GMing with us when Spurrier was at the helm just as much. Now you constantly use the cop-out "I trust Gibbs" reply to nearly every post and mock those of us that give our unabashed opinion. I'd really like to see the type of content you used to have with your posts.

As far as Portis, I agree that he's not exactly what we wanted. Coming out of Denver I think everyone expected his numbers to drop, I didn't expect quite the drop we've seen, but apparently I was wrong. Here's the thing about Portis, while he's not getting the yards we necessarily want from him, and definitely not getting the touchdowns. I feel the system is completely wrong for him, it looks like Buges and Gibbs has worked on getting more "Portis" plays in there. I think his injury is worse than we all know, and I believe our run blocking isn't THAT bad. Often he has one man to beat and stumbles (as Offiss pointed out).

What Portis brings to the table -- INTANGIBLES INTANGIBLES INTANGIBLES. He has a charismatic attitude, he's the head of our franchise. Coaches, Players, and fans all seem to respect him, the Redskins finally have someone stepping up to be a LEADER for this team. He's also a warrior, he plays throuh pain and injuries, and while I often don't respect this attribute as much as others, I do when the #2 is out. I think we gave Portis too much dough, and giving up a 2nd rounder was kinda tough -- especially with Shaun Alexander on the market (but who knows if we could have gotten him for the same price, but I think he'd fit into the system better.)

Long story short -- Portis is a quality back who will ALWAYS run hard and will be an emotional and vocal leader for your club. I feel our expectations will slowly come realized with time. I like to see our offensive line starting to gel (is it me or is Dockery a new player? Okay.. not quite, but improved!) we have some stability at most positions, and it looks like we're actually keeping a coaching staff together. I think in the end, Portis will work himself out. Gibbs seems to have gotten the passing game going (provided the Giants game brunell doesnt become a trend) maybe next year comes the running game...

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Daseal

How is that any different from your lack of opinion since Gibbs came into power matty? You were armchair GMing with us when Spurrier was at the helm just as much. Now you constantly use the cop-out "I trust Gibbs" reply to nearly every post and mock those of us that give our unabashed opinion. I'd really like to see the type of content you used to have with your posts.

Saying I trust Gibbs isn't a cop-out, it's my true feeling on the matter. I trust the current setup we have MUCH more than anything we've had in recent years. There's a sense of stability and direction that we've sorely lacked, I'm sure even you can agree. That's what I trust, I trust that his moves and decisions are being made in the best interest of the team, and that he's not making moves or decisions based on personal biases as some have ridiculously suggested. You'll never see me with the same opinions that I had when Spurrier was here simply because he was a buffoon and Gibbs is a Hall of Fame coach -- there's no comparing the two. It's like saying who do you trust more to run your business, Ronald McDonald or Donald Trump?

I don't think that he is infallible or incapable of making an error, I've said many times that our personnel moves for the most part have been more good than bad. If I blindly supported him I wouldn't acknowledge he's made any wrong decisions at all. He has made some bad moves, I've said our drafts have been weak, especially the later round selections.

What I have a problem with is people who constantly pick and fuss over every single little thing, especially after a loss. Some people are curiously quiet after wins, but only come out after a loss. That's what is boring and predictable to me.

After a win we never hear people criticize the Portis deal, or how much Arrington and Samuels are making. But after a loss... watch out, all of a sudden the sky is falling and every mistake the team has made over the past decade is held under the microscope. Again, boring and predictable.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

What I have a problem with is people who constantly pick and fuss over every single little thing, especially after a loss. Some people are curiously quiet after wins, but only come out after a loss. That's what is boring and predictable to me.

Maybe that's because after a win there isn't as much to bitch about.

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

After a win we never hear people criticize the Portis deal, or how much Arrington and Samuels are making. But after a loss... watch out, all of a sudden the sky is falling and every mistake the team has made over the past decade is held under the microscope. Again, boring and predictable.

First of all, I'm a free market, hardcore capitalist, and the more wealth those who have achieved are able to keep, the better the world is as far as I'm concerned. So while you won't find me complaining about "overpaid atheletes" in general, that doesn't mean this front office is above criticism for throwing massive contracts at free agents that destroy our cap, prevent us from acquiring adequate depth, and forces us to deal away draft picks year after year.

I've been skeptical of the Portis trade since day one. I was skeptical about it when this team started off undefeated for the first three games and he amassed zero touchdowns. And after discovering how Portis has performed in 8 NFC East matchups as a Redskin, with his whopping 3.6 yard per carry average in the games that matter most, forgive me if I don't participate in the orgasmic convulsions some people seem to be enjoying at the mere mention of his name.

Overall, he's a good running back. Against our division rivals, he's been average at best. Though some may view my opinion on him as bordering on a violation of Warpath rules, I stand by my argument. He wasn't worth what we gave up to get him. We can't do anything about that now, but that won't stop me from expressing that viewpoint should the subject arise.

[Daseal]

I agree with most everything you say in your post, there is a warm feeling of stability around the franchise now. While I will forever believe that if Spurrier had the defense we had last year our record would have been playoff callibre. The problem is, Spurrier wouldn't get rid of his college guys. While I respect his loyalty, it also cost him his job.

Everyone knows I've been a Spurrier fan forever (my dad went to Florida watching him play, and we used to watch the gators nearly every time they got on national TV) so I have a connection to him.

That being said, he would have had to make radical changes to be in the NFL and some personel changes as well.

What I'm getting at Matty, is if you trust the coaching staff, that's fine, on most issues, so do I. But there have to be times when you deviate from their thinking. Its only human nature! While we dont know all the behind the scenes information that would make our guesses irrelevant, it's still fun and what I love to see about the site. Speculation is fun.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I agree with most everything you say in your post, there is a warm feeling of stability around the franchise now. While I will forever believe that if Spurrier had the defense we had last year our record would have been playoff callibre. The problem is, Spurrier wouldn't get rid of his college guys. While I respect his loyalty, it also cost him his job.

Everyone knows I've been a Spurrier fan forever (my dad went to Florida watching him play, and we used to watch the gators nearly every time they got on national TV) so I have a connection to him.

That being said, he would have had to make radical changes to be in the NFL and some personel changes as well.

What I'm getting at Matty, is if you trust the coaching staff, that's fine, on most issues, so do I. But there have to be times when you deviate from their thinking. Its only human nature! While we dont know all the behind the scenes information that would make our guesses irrelevant, it's still fun and what I love to see about the site. Speculation is fun.

Of course speculating and discussing our opinions is fun and let's face it there wouldn't be much need for fan sites if it wasn't for that, but like I said I just have a problem with the naysayers who seem to love to kick the team when they're down, but don't offer up much praise when things are going well.

[Daseal]

Us naysayers read Sally Jenkins -- we can't help it.

I've mentioned in many posts, and even had a thread saying that it looks like I may have been wrong about Brunell, but I also think it's a bit early to think that all our woes are finished. All I want is a contender. It's been a long time since I've seen a good Redskins team (elementary school) and it's really high time we have one. After last week, Im a little worried...