Redskins Offseason Thread

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

But were we last in run defense with Allen Ioannidis and Foster healthy?

We were last (or close to it) because they were hurt.

I'm not saying we don't need even more depth, but it's not clear cut to me that we must use our 1st rounder on the DL.

Best player available, please.

This is my argument of why we need LG over DT, when Allen and Foster were playing we were better and we were surprised at way the Defense played early in the yr. We cant run the ball for shit

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

This is my argument of why we need LG over DT, when Allen and Foster were playing we were better and we were surprised at way the Defense played early in the yr. We cant run the ball for shit

Agree with the run defense piece. I'd happily take Vea at 13 but I'm not married to it.

But I'm not sure a good LG will solve the run game problem though. With Scherff and Trent on the line there has to be a way to run the ball better, even with Lauvao in the lineup. I can't reconcile in my mind why we're not already better on the ground.

I think it's a combination of:

- We don't play with a fullback, so tight ends need to block well, and Reed doesn't

- Kelley and Perine aren't a serious breakaway threat

- When DeSean Jackson left there was no threat whatsoever to keep the safeties from creeping forward. Richardson should help here.

- I think Jay's formations tend to broadcast whether we're running or passing. When we line up to throw, the tackles are quite often lined up a half step back from the center. When they line up on the ball with hand in the dirt, it's a run almost all the time. This is just my perception of it, I haven't chopped up tape and I haven't counted how often this is true. So there's my disclaimer. But I think there's some broadcasting of run vs pass.

- Little individual line issues. Trent and Scherff are big enough and athletic enough to run either zone (emphasizes mobility) or power (emphasizes brute force). But Spencer Long was a power guy and failed to reach on stretch zones. And Moses, as much as I love him, is more of a pass blocker than a run blocker, which makes matters real tough when he's got Reed lined up next to him. Lauvao was too inconsistent.

So there's a lot more at play here than drafting a LG will fix. You hope Roullier will be better than Long, I feel optimistic there. And I think Richardson reintroduces the speed aspect vs the safeties. And I think Alex Smith's athleticism and abilities with the RPO and read option will threaten defenses in different ways. But tight end is going to remain a problem, Moses needs to flat out improve as a run blocker, and we need a RB that scares defenses. There are a lot of reasons.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Agree with the run defense piece. I'd happily take Vea at 13 but I'm not married to it.

But I'm not sure a good LG will solve the run game problem though. With Scherff and Trent on the line there has to be a way to run the ball better, even with Lauvao in the lineup. I can't reconcile in my mind why we're not already better on the ground.

I think it's a combination of:

- We don't play with a fullback, so tight ends need to block well, and Reed doesn't

- Kelley and Perine aren't a serious breakaway threat

- When DeSean Jackson left there was no threat whatsoever to keep the safeties from creeping forward. Richardson should help here.

- I think Jay's formations tend to broadcast whether we're running or passing. When we line up to throw, the tackles are quite often lined up a half step back from the center. When they line up on the ball with hand in the dirt, it's a run almost all the time. This is just my perception of it, I haven't chopped up tape and I haven't counted how often this is true. So there's my disclaimer. But I think there's some broadcasting of run vs pass.

- Little individual line issues. Trent and Scherff are big enough and athletic enough to run either zone (emphasizes mobility) or power (emphasizes brute force). But Spencer Long was a power guy and failed to reach on stretch zones. And Moses, as much as I love him, is more of a pass blocker than a run blocker, which makes matters real tough when he's got Reed lined up next to him. Lauvao was too inconsistent.

So there's a lot more at play here than drafting a LG will fix. You hope Roullier will be better than Long, I feel optimistic there. And I think Richardson reintroduces the speed aspect vs the safeties. And I think Alex Smith's athleticism and abilities with the RPO and read option will threaten defenses in different ways. But tight end is going to remain a problem, Moses needs to flat out improve as a run blocker, and we need a RB that scares defenses. There are a lot of reasons.

FB would really help like when Sellers was around, man I miss that guy. I know we usually tend to run left mostly due to TW but I'd have to find a breakdown of the % of which way we run most. I agree about Moses he's like a Tyron Smith but Smith is a better run blocker not as great of a pass blocker. Lauvao just lacks the strength/athleticism, nothing else to say about the guy, he is a gamer but he's a backup on most teams. Roullier did look good last yr when he played so that is a good sign, and Jay has said good things about him in past interviews. Reed can't block me and you, he looks like he doesn't even try, VDavis isn't much better. No doubt it's more than LG we also lack a true RB1 but still, having Nelson on the line would just be NASTY.

Also yes the knock on Jay is he never commits to the run and didn't in Cincy either, so lets hope that can change with a RB1/LG combo

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Agree with the run defense piece. I'd happily take Vea at 13 but I'm not married to it.

But I'm not sure a good LG will solve the run game problem though. With Scherff and Trent on the line there has to be a way to run the ball better, even with Lauvao in the lineup. I can't reconcile in my mind why we're not already better on the ground.

I think it's a combination of:

- We don't play with a fullback, so tight ends need to block well, and Reed doesn't

- Kelley and Perine aren't a serious breakaway threat

- When DeSean Jackson left there was no threat whatsoever to keep the safeties from creeping forward. Richardson should help here.

- I think Jay's formations tend to broadcast whether we're running or passing. When we line up to throw, the tackles are quite often lined up a half step back from the center. When they line up on the ball with hand in the dirt, it's a run almost all the time. This is just my perception of it, I haven't chopped up tape and I haven't counted how often this is true. So there's my disclaimer. But I think there's some broadcasting of run vs pass.

- Little individual line issues. Trent and Scherff are big enough and athletic enough to run either zone (emphasizes mobility) or power (emphasizes brute force). But Spencer Long was a power guy and failed to reach on stretch zones. And Moses, as much as I love him, is more of a pass blocker than a run blocker, which makes matters real tough when he's got Reed lined up next to him. Lauvao was too inconsistent.

So there's a lot more at play here than drafting a LG will fix. You hope Roullier will be better than Long, I feel optimistic there. And I think Richardson reintroduces the speed aspect vs the safeties. And I think Alex Smith's athleticism and abilities with the RPO and read option will threaten defenses in different ways. But tight end is going to remain a problem, Moses needs to flat out improve as a run blocker, and we need a RB that scares defenses. There are a lot of reasons.

Agree with most of what you said.
I'd say Vernon Davis could be a better blocker than Reed, but last year it often seemed he didn't even try...

Our lack of running game sure is the consequence of several things, but I'd still draft a G pretty high, I'd rather have a young promising guy than resign 30 years old disappointing Lauvao...

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by FrenchSkin

Agree with most of what you said.
I'd say Vernon Davis could be a better blocker than Reed, but last year it often seemed he didn't even try...

Our lack of running game sure is the consequence of several things, but I'd still draft a G pretty high, I'd rather have a young promising guy than resign 30 years old disappointing Lauvao...

In a perfect world the best player available at our 2nd round spot will be a G/C like Price.

I do agree we have a need. And I'm OK with need being a tiebreaker when you're between two similarly rated players.

I just don't want a reach because of need. In my mind we have needs at LG, DL, RB, secondary, athletic LB, almost everywhere.

Not that you were espousing a reach. Like I said, hopefully BPA and needs align. Or maybe we're able to trade into positions such that the BPA and the needs do align - that'd be best of all worlds.

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

In a perfect world the best player available at our 2nd round spot will be a G/C like Price.

I do agree we have a need. And I'm OK with need being a tiebreaker when you're between two similarly rated players.

I just don't want a reach because of need. In my mind we have needs at LG, DL, RB, secondary, athletic LB, almost everywhere.

Not that you were espousing a reach. Like I said, hopefully BPA and needs align. Or maybe we're able to trade into positions such that the BPA and the needs do align - that'd be best of all worlds.

This is exactly what I'm wishing for.

Also, I do think the lack of vision of our RBs is a real factor. Chris Thompson didn't have success only outside the tackles, physically he can't carry the load, but he found good holes inside too.
I'm going through the All 22 tape of the niners game (to remind me of what our team looked like when healthy), and CT clearly saw things better than Perine.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

This is my argument of why we need LG over DT, when Allen and Foster were playing we were better and we were surprised at way the Defense played early in the yr. We cant run the ball for shit

edit I hate tables:
Rushing yards per game last year
1--- 64 || ||9--- 81
2--- 229 || ||10--- 156
3--- 116 || ||11--- 122
4--- 111 || ||12--- 56
5--- 94 || ||13--- 65
6--- 75 || ||14--- 31
7--- 49 || ||15--- 87
8--- 51 || ||16--- 61

Rushing yards allowed per game last year
1--- 58 || || 9--- 102
2--- 97 || ||10--- 160
3--- 32 || ||11--- 84
4--- 168 || ||12--- 182
5--- 85 || ||13--- 174
6--- 127 || ||14--- 141
7--- 169 || ||15--- 159
8--- 148 || ||16--- 260

Neither of those are something to write home about, but I think the defensive yards allowed are far more glaring with fewer injuries

8 of our games (50%) we had 80 yards or more rushing, by comparison we held the opponents under 80 yards just 2 times.

Add to that the fact that we aren't a heavy run oriented team to begin with. But lots of teams LOVE to run against us.

Look, you take the best player available in the draft, or trade down, but it's ludicrous to say LG is more important then a run stuffing NT.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

edit I hate tables:
Rushing yards per game last year
1 64 || ||9 81
2 229 || ||10 156
3 116 || ||11 122
4 111 || ||12 56
5 94 || ||13 65
6 75 || ||14 31
7 49 || ||15 87
8 51 || ||16 61

Rushing yards allowed per game last year
1 58 || || 9 102
2 97 || ||10 160
3 32 || ||11 84
4 168 || ||12 182
5 85 || ||13 174
6 127 || ||14 141
7 169 || ||15 159
8 148 || ||16 260

Neither of those are something to write home about, but I think the defensive yards allowed are far more glaring with fewer injuries

8 of our games (50%) we had 80 yards or more rushing, by comparison we held the opponents under 80 yards just 2 times.

Add to that the fact that we aren't a heavy run oriented team to begin with. But lots of teams LOVE to run against us.

Look, you take the best player available in the draft, or trade down, but it's ludicrous to say LG is more important then a run stuffing NT.

No doubt and I'm not saying no to a DT but at 13? That is pretty high, he better be the next Suh or Donald. LG/DT however u spin it, those are our biggest needs

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

No doubt and I'm not saying no to a DT but at 13? That is pretty high, he better be the next Suh or Donald. LG/DT however u spin it, those are our biggest needs

Or the next Johnathan Allen?

WTF

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

No doubt and I'm not saying no to a DT but at 13? That is pretty high, he better be the next Suh or Donald. LG/DT however u spin it, those are our biggest needs

I would say DT/RB/LG.

I also think all 3 can be addressed effectively in the draft. My main disagreement with some here is that FA was the way to address the line. I would rather take 2-3 lineman in the draft, + 1 or 2 undrafted guys, and see what shakes out, rather than look for other teams castaways in FA

(although I'm still open to a Hankins or CJ Anderson signing at the right price)

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I would say DT/RB/LG.

I also think all 3 can be addressed effectively in the draft. My main disagreement with some here is that FA was the way to address the line. I would rather take 2-3 lineman in the draft, + 1 or 2 undrafted guys, and see what shakes out, rather than look for other teams castaways in FA

(although I'm still open to a Hankins or CJ Anderson signing at the right price)

I dont know of any lineman really available still? I haven't looked in a while. Yes draft we need to address all 3 for sure, and probably a CB at some point as well. Norman isn't young anymore and scandrick is a 1 year guy.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I would say DT/RB/LG.

I also think all 3 can be addressed effectively in the draft. My main disagreement with some here is that FA was the way to address the line. I would rather take 2-3 lineman in the draft, + 1 or 2 undrafted guys, and see what shakes out, rather than look for other teams castaways in FA

(although I'm still open to a Hankins or CJ Anderson signing at the right price)

I would add fast twitch edge guy who scares tackles is another need.

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