When is Enough ,Enough?

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Giantone

No more slanted then your opinion.



So killing someone over a handicap parking space is cool ,I get it.

I simply don’t understand how that video is lawful. Instead of pulling the gun the guy should have called the police and the victim should have been charged with simple assault. That law needs to change.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I simply don’t understand how that video is lawful. Instead of pulling the gun the guy should have called the police and the victim should have been charged with simple assault. That law needs to change.

Exactly, seems that everyone agrees the one man was pushed to the ground and that the other man had no weapon of any kind,none.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I simply don’t understand how that video is lawful. Instead of pulling the gun the guy should have called the police and the victim should have been charged with simple assault. That law needs to change.

Do you know if the woman had threatened that her man would hurt him if he didnt leave? Do you know that the guy on the ground had time to stop and frisk him to find out if he had weapons.
Hindsight is great for fact finding but when your on the ground and a man half your age comes at you, i think you should have the right to defend yourself

I see it now, guy gets attacked, puts his hand up and says wait good sir, may i please call the police and report your actions. And of course the attacker says, oh why of course please report me. I am so glad you are a civic minded individual.

You are talking seconds to react to a guy who came out of the story, attacked you, and had the upper hand to hurt you more if he chooses.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Do you know if the woman had threatened that her man would hurt him if he didnt leave? Do you know that the guy on the ground had time to stop and frisk him to find out if he had weapons.
Hindsight is great for fact finding but when your on the ground and a man half your age comes at you, i think you should have the right to defend yourself

I see it now, guy gets attacked, puts his hand up and says wait good sir, may i please call the police and report your actions. And of course the attacker says, oh why of course please report me. I am so glad you are a civic minded individual.

You are talking seconds to react to a guy who came out of the story, attacked you, and had the upper hand to hurt you more if he chooses.

If you're going to carry in public to protect yourself, you need to be able to keep a cool head in situations like this.

I get that the guy was in shock from being pushed to the ground unexpectedly, but if he had waited just a couple seconds to collect his breath the tension probably would've deescalated. Instead look at the hesitation between when he draws and when the guy staggers backward after being shot. He literally sat there, hesitated (probably thinking do I do this?... yes) then shot him.

Was his life in immediate danger? No. But he wasn't thinking rationally, as soon as he got pushed he went into DEFCON 5 and decided to eliminate the threat. That is not the sign of a rational, intelligent gun owner. That's the sign of a guy who carries because he's just waiting for the shit to pop off (no metaphor intended).

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by mooby

If you're going to carry in public to protect yourself, you need to be able to keep a cool head in situations like this.

I get that the guy was in shock from being pushed to the ground unexpectedly, but if he had waited just a couple seconds to collect his breath the tension probably would've deescalated. Instead look at the hesitation between when he draws and when the guy staggers backward after being shot. He literally sat there, hesitated (probably thinking do I do this?... yes) then shot him.

Was his life in immediate danger? No. But he wasn't thinking rationally, as soon as he got pushed he went into DEFCON 5 and decided to eliminate the threat. That is not the sign of a rational, intelligent gun owner. That's the sign of a guy who carries because he's just waiting for the shit to pop off (no metaphor intended).

I have watched the video several times. The attacker comes out of the store walking then suddenly runs lunges and attacks. The shooter is now on the ground as he turns and rhe attacker makes the unfortunate hand movement of reaching to his waistband behind his back. That is likely what triggered the shot. I dont know the time from shooter pulling the trigger to the bullet hitting the man to his clutching his chest but its probably a good several seconds. For a comparison of reaction times, look how long from the man going in to the woman following. In real time that was probably very immediate but on the video that span of time is incredibly long compared to the run, attack, turn, shoot, and clutch portion of the same video at the same speed.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I have watched the video several times. The attacker comes out of the store walking then suddenly runs lunges and attacks. The shooter is now on the ground as he turns and rhe attacker makes the unfortunate hand movement of reaching to his waistband behind his back. That is likely what triggered the shot. I dont know the time from shooter pulling the trigger to the bullet hitting the man to his clutching his chest but its probably a good several seconds. For a comparison of reaction times, look how long from the man going in to the woman following. In real time that was probably very immediate but on the video that span of time is incredibly long compared to the run, attack, turn, shoot, and clutch portion of the same video at the same speed.

So have I , you're wrong.It was murder.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Giantone

So have I , you're wrong.It was murder.

For now Pinellas county says you are incorrect. Next the state of Florida will either agree or disagree, and finally a jury will determine if it was in fact a wrongful death. I will defer to their judgements, I merely was arguing there are more views than one slanted article's viewpoint.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Do you know if the woman had threatened that her man would hurt him if he didnt leave? Do you know that the guy on the ground had time to stop and frisk him to find out if he had weapons.
Hindsight is great for fact finding but when your on the ground and a man half your age comes at you, i think you should have the right to defend yourself

I see it now, guy gets attacked, puts his hand up and says wait good sir, may i please call the police and report your actions. And of course the attacker says, oh why of course please report me. I am so glad you are a civic minded individual.

You are talking seconds to react to a guy who came out of the story, attacked you, and had the upper hand to hurt you more if he chooses.

So there wasn’t a way to diffuse the situation? I don’t think anyone should have gotten shot. Seems like the Wild West.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

So there wasn’t a way to diffuse the situation? I don’t think anyone should have gotten shot. Seems like the Wild West.

I don't know if there was a way, but clearly running out of the store and attacking the guy didnt diffuse the situation either. There were probably 4 to 5 critical choices leading to the final outcome, 2 were by the shooter.
The shooter could have not confronted the lady about illegal parking. I would not have.

The woman could have acknowledged there were other spots and moved.

The attacker could have walked out and verbally engaged the shooter, which would have opened many other options

The shooter could have waited to see if the attacker was reaching for a gun or adjusting his waistband.


My point is that the final act of the shot isn't an isolated action and that all 3 players made decisions that escalated instead of de-escalated the situation.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I don't know if there was a way, but clearly running out of the store and attacking the guy didnt diffuse the situation either. There were probably 4 to 5 critical choices leading to the final outcome, 2 were by the shooter.
The shooter could have not confronted the lady about illegal parking. I would not have.

The woman could have acknowledged there were other spots and moved.

The attacker could have walked out and verbally engaged the shooter, which would have opened many other options

The shooter could have waited to see if the attacker was reaching for a gun or adjusting his waistband.


My point is that the final act of the shot isn't an isolated action and that all 3 players made decisions that escalated instead of de-escalated the situation.

The shooter also could have pulled and kept it in a stance that said "if you advance, you're dead."

Aka draw, aim it halfway between the ground and center mass, tell the guy "you move any closer and you die." If I'm an unarmed man and some guy draws on me, I'm standing down. Especially if it's some gung-ho redneck not playing around.

If the formerly alive guy had any sense whatsoever he would've realized it wasn't worth it and backed off. Then shooter calls the cops and lets them sort it out.

Instead he won't get that opportunity. Is pushing a guy a death sentence?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by mooby

The shooter also could have pulled and kept it in a stance that said "if you advance, you're dead."

Aka draw, aim it halfway between the ground and center mass, tell the guy "you move any closer and you die." If I'm an unarmed man and some guy draws on me, I'm standing down. Especially if it's some gung-ho redneck not playing around.

If the formerly alive guy had any sense whatsoever he would've realized it wasn't worth it and backed off. Then shooter calls the cops and lets them sort it out.

Instead he won't get that opportunity. Is pushing a guy a death sentence?

I agree - if he thought about the guy advancing. The time from push to shot was 2 to 3 seconds. The part i think is critical is the 1 second as the shooters head turns and focuses, and i think he saw the hand movements of the attacker going to his back waist and thought a weapon(gun) was coming out.

Another part of the video that is obscured is what causes the attacker to run towards the shooter. If the shooter laid hands on the woman at all, then none of what i am suggesting matters anyway because the act of pushing the shooter away was warranted to begin with.

[Giantone]

What I thought was critical was if the ass hole had just minded his own business and walked away then nothing would have happen but that is just me.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

So there wasn’t a way to diffuse the situation? I don’t think anyone should have gotten shot. Seems like the Wild West.

There is a problem with that law.

[Giantone]

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

So there wasn’t a way to diffuse the situation? I don’t think anyone should have gotten shot. Seems like the Wild West.

It is the Wild West with that “stand your ground” BS, fucking Florida