The Passion of Christ

[skinsfanthru&thru]

I saw the movie Saturday and I'm still somewhat in an emotional overlode. I've never pretended to be highly religious but this movie hit me very deeply. As far as the violence, I went in feeling fully prepared and I've seen my load of graphic violence but this was something so much different than the violence you'd see in a movie like Kill Bill. I think of myself as someone who's not really sqeamish, but during the scourging(sp?) I found myself flinching away at times as well as the nailing of the palms. I don't even feel embarrased that I was openly weeping during parts of the movie. I never thought that in my lifetime I could ever have something impact me this much (and this is from someone who turned 21 on september 11th, 2001), but I still can't fully put into words what this movie opened my eyes and soul to.

[backrow]

Christ's life has impacted my own beyond measure. I cannot watch the brutality until and unless it comes out on DVD. I have seen the picture book from the Christian Bookstore, and that was enough. I never want to sugar coat Christ's death for all, but I feel the emphasis was and is from the three days later, when he arose to prove victory over sin, death, the grave, sickness, and disease. He provides more than just a path to heaven. He provides a daily relationship, a peace, a plan for our lives, health, and most of all his love! Most of all, God didn't die for our sins! He died to redeem us from our sins! He arose again to give us new life, and is only a simple prayer away!

He has given me a good wife and home, wonderful kids, wonderful grand-kids, and a purpose and reason to talk of his love. Jesus preached of God's love, his grace and mercy. I can only do the same! This has been a great forum topic, because we all are more than just Redskin fans!

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by backrow

Christ's life has impacted my own beyond measure. I cannot watch the brutality until and unless it comes out on DVD. I have seen the picture book from the Christian Bookstore, and that was enough. I never want to sugar coat Christ's death for all, but I feel the emphasis was and is from the three days later, when he arose to prove victory over sin, death, the grave, sickness, and disease. He provides more than just a path to heaven. He provides a daily relationship, a peace, a plan for our lives, health, and most of all his love! Most of all, God didn't die for our sins! He died to redeem us from our sins! He arose again to give us new life, and is only a simple prayer away!

He has given me a good wife and home, wonderful kids, wonderful grand-kids, and a purpose and reason to talk of his love. Jesus preached of God's love, his grace and mercy. I can only do the same! This has been a great forum topic, because we all are more than just Redskin fans!

Man oh man, let me puke now. What do you think Jesus would say about fighting terrorism alongside your cowroids or whatever? What would he say about pre-emptive invasions of foreign countries for reasons that are later proven 100% false? What would he say about all the people -- American and Iraqi (yes they are human beings too) -- who have died violently in the last year in this so-called war on terrorism? What about turning the other cheek? What about loving your brother? What about doing unto others as you would have them do unto you? All you so-called Christians should spend more time thinking about Christ's message -- namely forgiveness, compassion, unconditional love and NONVIOLENCE -- and less on the resurrection mythology. You're not a Christian just because you go to church on Sundays and can quote the bible ... you've got to walk the walk. I find your references to fighting terrorism completely inappropriate for this web site.

[Bozzy]

"All you so-called Christians should spend more time thinking about Christ's message -- namely forgiveness, compassion, unconditional love and NONVIOLENCE -- and less on the resurrection mythology."

Amen, Ghost.

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by Ghost

I find your references to fighting terrorism completely inappropriate for this web site.

Then why did you take it and create a rant on it?
Just leave it alone, and it will go away.

[cpayne5]

The way I look at the war on terrorism is this:
If we didn't invade Afghanistan/Iraq and al-qaeda once again attacked under the guidance of UBL, what would your stance be? Suppose he obtained weapons from Iraq (which they were actively persuing) and used them to murder 10k people here in the states, say they detonated a bomb during Mardi Gras. Would your opinions change then? Or how about if a close relative was in the WTC when the planes hit? Come on. We have to protect ourselves. As for pre-emptive strikes, its better to crush a known enemy when you know where they are, rather than trying to catch them in the confusion brought about by them striking us. It's funny that everyone grasps to David Kay's report about the existence of WMD, but then ignores his opinions about where they are now, and about Hussein's actions prior to the invasion.

As for non-violence, you should realize that Jesus did not let himself get pushed around by those he believed were doing wrong. Read his about his actions in the synagogue if your memory fails.

I just do not see how we can sit around and do nothing until we get hit. It does not make any sense. If we do nothing, they will kill us all. Plain and simple. For those who believe in survival of the fittest, or Darwinism: how do you think we exist!?

Let the fun begin. Oh boy, here we go...

[Ghost]

cpayne ... Afganistan is one thing, Iraq is another. There simply was never any link between Saddam and Osama ... that's just BS the Bush Administration used to justify their war. Attacking Iraq was high on their list before 9/11 ... the unforgivable thing is that they've used a terrible tragedy like 9/11 to justify their actions. This was a power play for oil and money, and to make amends for Papa Bush's failures during the first Iraq war. These people in the White House are nothing short of criminals and I hope they go to jail someday (let's not forget about their Enron connections either).

Though I'm philosophically opposed to war, I can understand going after Bin Laden. There simply is no justification for attacking Iraq. None. Zero. The reasons we were given ... WMDs, al Qaeda link, possible 9/11 connection, attempts to obtain nuclear material ... were all proven false in time. Bush lied in his State of the Union address. Cheney berated CIA officials because their evidence concerning WMDs wasn't convincing enough. Essentially Bush/Cheney cooked the books. Now we're stuck in Iraq for 2-3 years or more and our troops will be targets for every fundamentalist fanatic in the world. It's Vietnam. Our soldiers and the Iraqi people will now pay the price for the Bush Administration's greed and foolishness. As Americans, we have a duty to question our leaders and not follow them blindly. It's an American tradition to distrust our politicians but in this instance most of us have failed in our duty. We have become fat, entitled and lazy because we are too comfortable. We are also very, very selfish.

It's true that Jesus didn't let himself get pushed around but he NEVER used or condoned violence in any way. He was an incredibly strong and devout person and he was a pacifist. These characteristics are not contradictory, cpayne. The strongest thing you can do is handle a difficult situation without resorting to violence. A "christian" is someone who follows Christ's example, the way he lived his life. Too many people focus on the resurrection, which is meaningless if you don't buy into the teachings. My point is that a lot of people who claim to be christians are really far from it and that's a shame. It's not enough to go to church and put money in the basket. You have to really try to live your life like Jesus did and that's a really, really hard thing to do. Is it even realistic? I don't know but you have to try ... it's a spiritual ideal that christians must strive for every day ... if we fail sometimes that's okay, but we must keep trying. If someone thinks racist wars and pre-emptive invasions of sovereign countries is cool, that's fine. But it ain't exactly christian, is it?

[backrow]

Militarily speaking!
I work for a small outfit, called the U.S. Navy, ever hear of it? We are big in ships and planes! Daily military news excerpts prove there was a need to go into Iraq as well as Afghanistan! Those news excerpts were all from valid news agencies, like the London Times, NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, Washington Times, Tampa, Baltimore, and a miriad of other daily public publications! And, just because the mainstream press has covered up, or not picked up the stories of what we found as first reported doesn't mean it never happened. Or never existed. You believe everything you read, or hear, which I'm sure is only a small amount of what is actually happening, and you become brainwashed. 9-11 changed the world, lest we forget! We were after all, attacked first. Information is the key! I'm in favor of any effort to go after those responsible, including Saddam and his associate, Osama! At whatever the cost! Yes, there is a substantial connection, and a need to be there! Just remember, the Liberal left controls the air, and most of the news, so why do you think you lean one way, and an old Vet like me, and active duty personnel lean another way? Maybe we know, and just don't say because of certain degrees of secrecy in the government! I say we need to support the President! And, listen with more than your eyes and ears. Granted, you folks don't have the ability to look at a compilation of daily news, but, all of the publications I see cited in military news are all from purely public sources! It's no secret!

Yes, I'm pasionate about Christ, but also about the need to support and pray for our leaders. That is scriptural!

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by Ghost

There simply is no justification for attacking Iraq. None. Zero. The reasons we were given ... WMDs, al Qaeda link, possible 9/11 connection, attempts to obtain nuclear material ... were all proven false in time.

David Kay (who's report I'm assuming you're going by) doesn't seem to think so.

Transcript of an interview with David Kay on the Today Show, being interviewed by Matt Lauer. This interview came after the report.

Lauer: "Is it true that in 2000 and 2001 Saddam was pushing his nuclear progarm?"

Kay: "Yes, he was pushing hard for nuclear and long range missiles. Look, it's clear the man had the intent. He simply wasn't successful."

"He clearly lied to UN and was in material breach."

In a key moment in the interview, Lauer asked: "Based on everything you now know, was it prudent to go to war against Saddam?"

Kay: "It was absolutely prudent to go to war. The system was collapsing, Iraq was a country with desire to develop WMDs, and it was attracting terrorists like flies to honey."

Lauer: "Are your earlier comments being exploited for political reasons?"

"Inevitably yes, but what we have is a national security issue that shouldn't be exploited as a political issue."

Lauer: "Should we continue to search for WMDs as VP Cheney has suggested?

Kay: "Absolutely."

[JoeRedskin]

GHOST EARLIER POST: "It's true that Jesus didn't let himself get pushed around but he NEVER used or condoned violence in any way. He was an incredibly strong and devout person and he was a pacifist. These characteristics are not contradictory, cpayne. The strongest thing you can do is handle a difficult situation without resorting to violence. A "christian" is someone who follows Christ's example, the way he lived his life. Too many people focus on the resurrection, which is meaningless if you don't buy into the teachings. My point is that a lot of people who claim to be christians are really far from it and that's a shame. It's not enough to go to church and put money in the basket. You have to really try to live your life like Jesus did and that's a really, really hard thing to do. Is it even realistic? I don't know but you have to try ... it's a spiritual ideal that christians must strive for every day ... if we fail sometimes that's okay, but we must keep trying. If someone thinks racist wars and pre-emptive invasions of sovereign countries is cool, that's fine. But it ain't exactly christian, is it?"


First, let me say this - Ghost if you review the post to which you originally responded and complained of christians condoning terrorism, I think you will find that the person posting made NO references to terrorism but, instead, simply spoke of his gratitude to Christ and the example he gave us and, specifically, to the good things that the poster attributed as gifts from God.

As for christians who act, say and believe things which contradict the teachings of christ - as christ himself said "all have sinned and fallen short of the nature of God." This is not an excuse, but, dammit, I am only human do not expect me to be perfect and do not use my imperfections as a basis to tarnish the ideal for which I strive (and, undoubtedly fail to achieve). Before you condemn those who "go to church and put money in the basket" recognize that they, at least at some level, have some understanding that God is important and "religion" is something that should be part of their lives - isn't this an important first step in any deeper spirituality? Have you spoken with them and discussed yours and their differing spirituality? Your statement of the obvious that christians should strive to live as christ did reeks of self satisfaction and superiority. Scholars, theologians, and wiseman of all faiths have debated just how to accomplish that easily phrased but difficult journey and most have come up with different answers.

As for the pacifist nature of Christ, well that depends on how you define pacifist. If you mean one who thinks violence, even for a just cause, is always wrong, I disagree. I believe, while violence was repugnant to Jesus, Christ understood, accepted and condoned violence as a last resort individually and as a neccessary evil corporately if appropriately used in the pursuit of ultimate justice (I don't think Christ would have had any problem launching a pre-emptive strike against Hitler).

Your statement that Christ never condoned violence or used violence is simply wrong. The most obvious example is the scourging of the temple; Christ violently threw the money changers out of the temple (he made a whip and lashed them). Further, Christ respected and understood the military (although most of his miracles were reserved for jews, the Roman Centurian's daughter was healed through the Centurian's faith and respect for authority). Also, Christ clearly recognized the authority of governments to order the civil lives of citizens (give unto ceasar that which is ceasar's, give unto God that which is God's). As the ultimate example to us as individuals, however, Christ surrendered himself to the violence of others and demonstrated the power that peace can have.

Finally, I take great exception to your statement that "Too many people focus on the resurrection, which is meaningless if you don't buy into the teachings." If your disclaimer in the predicate's subjunctive clause is intended to mean that the resurrection without context is meaningless, fine, I agree. If on the other hand, you disagree with christianity's focus on the resurrection as THE focal point of the religion well I couldn't disagree more. The teachings, surrender and sacrifice of christ are no more then another martyr story without the justification brought out by the resurrection. Whether or not you believe that he rose from the dead in physical form, the central christian resurrection message that total surrender to God brings you to a state of being in which you are one with God is essential to the teachings and life of Christ. It is the climax of Christ's story, the end of his journey, the focus to which his life and teachings pointed - not just an epilogue to the story of his death.

IMHO, Christianity is a long, hard journey filled with spirituality and wisdom from those who have gone before us. Christ challenges us in every moment and in every decision to "live like Christ" and, for each person, how to accomplish that will be a different facet on the central christian tenets of love and self sacrifice. Equally so, for each nation, state, city, or any other setting where humans live and act corporately, "christian" action is a matter of much debate as it should be. To summarize and judge other actions as christian or non-christian as you appear (to me) to be doing (especially with erroneous statements) discounts your assertions and discredits your criticisms.

That's my two cents. Peace Be With You.