When is Enough ,Enough?

[mooby]

You really nailed with the COL/wage/inflation relationship expanding since the 70's, salaries just haven't risen the way the price of everything else has. The idea of a blue collar worker making enough to afford to live in the area he works is unrealistic nowadays.

The issue I have with your generation is implying millennials are lazy or entitled when wages just aren't what they used to be. I am one of 26 parts countermen maintaining a fleet of 6200 vehicles, including 1800 school buses, 500-600 police and fire apparatus, around 200 solid waste trucks and everything in between. It's a skilled job that people can't just walk in off the street and learn how to do in a day. It requires constant learning as technology in vehicles also keeps evolving. But the reality is the only coworkers I have that live in Fairfax County bought houses here 30 years ago and are close to retirement. Everyone else lives 20-50 miles down 95 or 66 where the COL is cheaper. Most of us have 2nd jobs because the county doesn't pay well to get by on one salary. You'll never be able to convince me the service we provide isn't worthy of a decent salary. But the reality is when it comes to the budget, we're an afterthought. I'm not even sure citizens know our department exists.

Anyways the point I make is I blame corporations and the gov't for giving tax breaks in exchange for creating jobs, even if it means those jobs are low paying and do nothing to help low-income communities break out of poverty. I blame the wealthy for not paying their fair share of taxes, like they did in the 40+ years after WW2 where the marginal tax rate was between 70-90%. Money buys privilege and power, and the only goal of the wealthy is to keep hoarding as much as possible at our expense. Every day we see a new example of that. Today's example: Jeffrey Epstein. You can't convince me if Epstein was some poor broke fucker that manipulated people into bringing him girls to traumatize he would've gotten off with the sentence he did in '08.

Anyways I know you probably disagree with much of what I just said, but I respect your willingness to engage in discussion civilly.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by mooby

You really nailed with the COL/wage/inflation relationship expanding since the 70's, salaries just haven't risen the way the price of everything else has. The idea of a blue collar worker making enough to afford to live in the area he works is unrealistic nowadays.



The issue I have with your generation is implying millennials are lazy or entitled when wages just aren't what they used to be. I am one of 26 parts countermen maintaining a fleet of 6200 vehicles, including 1800 school buses, 500-600 police and fire apparatus, around 200 solid waste trucks and everything in between. It's a skilled job that people can't just walk in off the street and learn how to do in a day. It requires constant learning as technology in vehicles also keeps evolving. But the reality is the only coworkers I have that live in Fairfax County bought houses here 30 years ago and are close to retirement. Everyone else lives 20-50 miles down 95 or 66 where the COL is cheaper. Most of us have 2nd jobs because the county doesn't pay well to get by on one salary. You'll never be able to convince me the service we provide isn't worthy of a decent salary. But the reality is when it comes to the budget, we're an afterthought. I'm not even sure citizens know our department exists.



Anyways the point I make is I blame corporations and the gov't for giving tax breaks in exchange for creating jobs, even if it means those jobs are low paying and do nothing to help low-income communities break out of poverty. I blame the wealthy for not paying their fair share of taxes, like they did in the 40+ years after WW2 where the marginal tax rate was between 70-90%. Money buys privilege and power, and the only goal of the wealthy is to keep hoarding as much as possible at our expense. Every day we see a new example of that. Today's example: Jeffrey Epstein. You can't convince me if Epstein was some poor broke fucker that manipulated people into bringing him girls to traumatize he would've gotten off with the sentence he did in '08.



Anyways I know you probably disagree with much of what I just said, but I respect your willingness to engage in discussion civilly.

I think super rich is an issue. I define super rich as having a net worth of 100 years of "middle class" annual wage or 70k x100yrs in one year.

I believe over that rate there should be far higher tax rates. But you do have to incentivize capital markets for investment purposes so i probably could never put together a coherent tax strategy. I also don't believe anyone making under 70k should have to pay anything in taxes. I know generally they are leaning most on government, but the system should be geared to getting people on their own instead of creating dependency.

I suppose i am incoherently babbling, but i don't have a clue how to actually fix the things that are so broken in this country, and if i did no politician would listen anyways...

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[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by mooby

The issue I have with your generation is implying millennials are lazy or entitled when wages just aren't what they used to be.

I could even give you my long winded take on just that alone. I will just explain where us old people come from as I am getting my yearly gout attack in my wrist and it even hurts to type. First, the overly ambitious and those that enjoy physical activity are not going to get lazy no matter what. It is the person who is opposite of that will go down the lazy or entitled road if afforded the opportunity. The advance of technology can lead to laziness, I will explain that one first.

I will just give things on how I see them compared to then and now. I was born in 1961, into blue collar lineage. 1968 I am 7 years old, most places had 5 TV channels, there wasn't a lot of programming geared toward children and that was back when dad controlled the remote anyway. That is how you have a bunch of baby boomers like me who remember sporting events that happened when they were as young as 5. So sitting around watching TV for long hours did not happen. You went outside and played army, cowboys and Indians, rode bikes, played sports. There weren't many options to tempt kids who leaned toward being lazy other than maybe books, puzzles, and board games. None of those options available for the lazy kid were available to be done while he should be doing chores or studying. Today you have the internet, video games, and hand held devices where you can spend hours a time doing nothing constructive. Probably you would have just as many lazy kids in my day as today if we had modern technology.

End of part 1, that was elementary school. Will get to High School and the work place differences after I ice my wrist, take more Advil and pick up some groceries I ordered to go. They will shop for you and put them in your trunk for an extra $1.95, I wish they would deliver.

That was a good example of modern technology causing laziness. I ordered my groceries on line, saving shopping with a painful wrist. In the old days I would have had to nut up and do it myself. So instead of in a grocery store I am on the Warpath.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Buffalo Bob

I could even give you my long winded take on just that alone. I will just explain where us old people come from as I am getting my yearly gout attack in my wrist and it even hurts to type. First, the overly ambitious and those that enjoy physical activity are not going to get lazy no matter what. It is the person who is opposite of that will go down the lazy or entitled road if afforded the opportunity. The advance of technology can lead to laziness, I will explain that one first.

I will just give things on how I see them compared to then and now. I was born in 1961, into blue collar lineage. 1968 I am 7 years old, most places had 5 TV channels, there wasn't a lot of programming geared toward children and that was back when dad controlled the remote anyway. That is how you have a bunch of baby boomers like me who remember sporting events that happened when they were as young as 5. So sitting around watching TV for long hours did not happen. You went outside and played army, cowboys and Indians, rode bikes, played sports. There weren't many options to tempt kids who leaned toward being lazy other than maybe books, puzzles, and board games. None of those options available for the lazy kid were available to be done while he should be doing chores or studying. Today you have the internet, video games, and hand held devices where you can spend hours a time doing nothing constructive. Probably you would have just as many lazy kids in my day as today if we had modern technology.

End of part 1, that was elementary school. Will get to High School and the work place differences after I ice my wrist, take more Advil and pick up some groceries I ordered to go. They will shop for you and put them in your trunk for an extra $1.95, I wish they would deliver.

That was a good example of modern technology causing laziness. I ordered my groceries on line, saving shopping with a painful wrist. In the old days I would have had to nut up and do it myself. So instead of in a grocery store I am on the Warpath.

I think we lived in the same neighborhood.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Buffalo Bob

I could even give you my long winded take on just that alone. I will just explain where us old people come from as I am getting my yearly gout attack in my wrist and it even hurts to type. First, the overly ambitious and those that enjoy physical activity are not going to get lazy no matter what. It is the person who is opposite of that will go down the lazy or entitled road if afforded the opportunity. The advance of technology can lead to laziness, I will explain that one first.

I will just give things on how I see them compared to then and now. I was born in 1961, into blue collar lineage. 1968 I am 7 years old, most places had 5 TV channels, there wasn't a lot of programming geared toward children and that was back when dad controlled the remote anyway. That is how you have a bunch of baby boomers like me who remember sporting events that happened when they were as young as 5. So sitting around watching TV for long hours did not happen. You went outside and played army, cowboys and Indians, rode bikes, played sports. There weren't many options to tempt kids who leaned toward being lazy other than maybe books, puzzles, and board games. None of those options available for the lazy kid were available to be done while he should be doing chores or studying. Today you have the internet, video games, and hand held devices where you can spend hours a time doing nothing constructive. Probably you would have just as many lazy kids in my day as today if we had modern technology.

End of part 1, that was elementary school. Will get to High School and the work place differences after I ice my wrist, take more Advil and pick up some groceries I ordered to go. They will shop for you and put them in your trunk for an extra $1.95, I wish they would deliver.

That was a good example of modern technology causing laziness. I ordered my groceries on line, saving shopping with a painful wrist. In the old days I would have had to nut up and do it myself. So instead of in a grocery store I am on the Warpath.

I totally agree, I know several people my age that still live with their family members and have no ambition to do anything besides stay home and play games all day.

The ratio of millenials I know who work hard and are saddled with student debt or work two jobs because their main one pays shit to those other people is like 10/1 though. Maybe it's just a northern VA thing where the COL is high , and the problem is more widespread in rural communities? Idk. I def. agree that modern technology has made more people lazy. Your situation isn't one of laziness though, if grocery shopping online because your arthritis makes shopping difficult I'd do the same thing. That's a benefit IMO.

Originally Posted by Cred

I think super rich is an issue. I define super rich as having a net worth of 100 years of "middle class" annual wage or 70k x100yrs in one year.

I believe over that rate there should be far higher tax rates. But you do have to incentivize capital markets for investment purposes so i probably could never put together a coherent tax strategy. I also don't believe anyone making under 70k should have to pay anything in taxes. I know generally they are leaning most on government, but the system should be geared to getting people on their own instead of creating dependency.

I suppose i am incoherently babbling, but i don't have a clue how to actually fix the things that are so broken in this country, and if i did no politician would listen anyways...

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Cred if there's one thing I can agree on, it's that I'm also not smart enough to figure out how to fix the things that are broken in this country. I also agree that a system that would help independent people prosper would be ideal.