Dunbar demanding trade or release

[mooby]

Sucks but you gotta oblige him. Obviously Dunbar wants to be paid in case something like the Foster situation happens with him, and I'm guessing the Redskins don't want to commit too much money to a guy who has trouble staying on the field.

Nothing personal, just business. We only want people who want to be here.

[skinsfan69]

No one is paying him top corner money when he's always in the cold tub. He's the best corner on a bad defense. I think Dunbar is a good player but he is not an elite player. He can be replaced. I'd draw a line in the sand, play or stay home.

[skinsfaninok]

In fact Fullers career Coverage grades.

2019 = 66.3
2018 = 70.8
2017 = 91.2 (GREAT YR)
2016 = 54.9 (VERY BAD)

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

In fact Fullers career Coverage grades.

2019 = 66.3 Out of position.
2018 = 70.8 Out of position.
2017 = 91.2 (GREAT YR) As a Slot Corner.
2016 = 54.9 (VERY BAD) Most rookies start slowly.

These numbers need to be properly interpreted. Trust your own judgment. We all saw what he can do when he is used properly. Besides, his 2018 and 2019 numbers were decent. Also, he probably won't cost very much so I think he is well worth the slight risk. Personally, I think he has the tools to succeed and I want him back.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

These numbers need to be properly interpreted. Trust your own judgment. We all saw what he can do when he is used properly. Besides, his 2018 and 2019 numbers were decent. Also, he probably won't cost very much so I think he is well worth the slight risk. Personally, I think he has the tools to succeed and I want him back.

For the right deal of course

[jamf]

Let's not overreact.
Dude is just trying to get paid.

You can't discard every player that isn't a choirboy and expect to win.
The best coaches can get the best out of these diva players.

The only culture that matters is a winning culture.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by jamf

Let's not overreact.
Dude is just trying to get paid.

You can't discard every player that isn't a choirboy and expect to win.
The best coaches can get the best out of these diva players.

The only culture that matters is a winning culture.

Completely agree.

Its crazy that people want get rid of Dunbar ASAP for using a standard negotiating tactic when they want to do whatever it takes to get TW back when his behavior was 100x worse. If the team isn't going to do everything possible to get rid of Trent, I see no reason why they would do that for Dunbar. Both are the best options we have on our roster at their respective positions -and by a decent margin. And Dunbar has said he would show up and play out his deal if the skins don't trade him. I'm not concerned.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Completely agree.

Its crazy that people want get rid of Dunbar ASAP for using a standard negotiating tactic when they want to do whatever it takes to get TW back when his behavior was 100x worse. If the team isn't going to do everything possible to get rid of Trent, I see no reason why they would do that for Dunbar. Both are the best options we have on our roster at their respective positions -and by a decent margin. And Dunbar has said he would show up and play out his deal if the skins don't trade him. I'm not concerned.

False equivalence between Trent and Dunbar. Trent protects the blindside of Haskins, so ridding yourself of Trent means you need to find a competent replacement immediately or risk the development of your young QB. Trent also has given so much to this team over the years, playing through immense amounts of pain, so he has shown a track record of setting the culture you want. His beef with the team was for reasons that are all now purged from the organization. If he wants to return and play for this new staff, and you think you're getting back the guy who played through pain and was consistently excellent, that is far different from Dunbar who is expressing he wants out.

If Trent wants in and Dunbar wants out, then that says all you need to know about what each will add to the culture.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

False equivalence between Trent and Dunbar. Trent protects the blindside of Haskins, so ridding yourself of Trent means you need to find a competent replacement immediately or risk the development of your young QB. Trent also has given so much to this team over the years, playing through immense amounts of pain, so he has shown a track record of setting the culture you want. His beef with the team was for reasons that are all now purged from the organization. If he wants to return and play for this new staff, and you think you're getting back the guy who played through pain and was consistently excellent, that is far different from Dunbar who is expressing he wants out.

If Trent wants in and Dunbar wants out, then that says all you need to know about what each will add to the culture.

So much wrong in your comment. First, Trent didn't protect Haskins' blindside last year. Did Haskins development suffer because he wasn't there? Brown did just fine. And Trent typically only plays about 12 games a year the past few years due to suspension and injuries - will his development be stunted because Trent likely wont be there all 16 games? You act as though Trent Williams is the only player capable of protecting Haskins blindside. Trent Williams is good, but he's not irreplaceable, as Donald Penn demonstrated last year.

You also falsely assert that Trent's beef with the team is over now that Bruce and Hess are gone. This is a blatant lie. Trent himself made it very clear this all started because he wanted to get paid and the team wouldn't do it. And why would they now? And why would he come back without it (since it was so important to him)? You are incredibly and optimistically unrealistic in thinking this will all be worked out so easily AND that Trent will be healthy and as elite as he was in his prime.

Penn effectively filled in Trent's place last year. We already need one new starting CB... do we really think we can get TWO in free agency and the draft?

We (stupidly) did not trade Trent last year when he created a tremendous distraction for the entire team. But now, a year later, there is atleast a chance he might come back. This would seem to justify not caving in to a players contract demands. Dunbar has asked for a trade, but he's made clear he's not going to be the cancer Trent was. He's not going to hold out. He's not going to miss games. He's not going to trash the team and be a distraction. Unless he changes his tune and starts imitating Trents low-character ways, there is no reason to move him.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by jamf

Let's not overreact.
Dude is just trying to get paid.

You can't discard every player that isn't a choirboy and expect to win.
The best coaches can get the best out of these diva players.

The only culture that matters is a winning culture.

While I agree with you , I will give you a little something . Two years ago , when The Skins decided to not pick up the option on J. Doctson ( WR ) , we were at a party with a guy who worked with the Skins Med/Training staff . After a few cold ones , he finally answered us about Doctson . His reply …. biggest crybaby he had been around at NFL level . Next biggest crybaby … Dunbar . Maybe he is not really ready for camp RR / Del Rio ?

[Warthog]

Originally Posted by budw38

While I agree with you , I will give you a little something . Two years ago , when The Skins decided to not pick up the option on J. Doctson ( WR ) , we were at a party with a guy who worked with the Skins Med/Training staff . After a few cold ones , he finally answered us about Doctson . His reply …. biggest crybaby he had been around at NFL level . Next biggest crybaby … Dunbar . Maybe he is not really ready for camp RR / Del Rio ?

Difference between Doctson and Dunbar was that Doctson was a total draft bust, and he was a first round draft pick at that. Not even sure if he’s in the NFL at all. He was drafted high and just never came close to filling his potential.

Dunbar was an unheard of Undrafted Free Agent (UDFA) who started as a WR. Then Gruden had him switch to CB. Dunbar has improved every season and is now the second or third best CB in the NFL. He’s got one season left on his contract. No guaranteed money, so if he gets hurt, he gets nothing. So I see where he’s coming from. There have been so many injuries on this team, including some really bad one like Alex Smith, so I can understand an outstanding player like Dunbar worried about getting hurt before he gets a new, big contract for his level of play.

Get him in a good contract with guaranteed money and let’s move down the road. He’s going to be one of the cornerstones (no pun intended!) of the defense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Warthog

Difference between Doctson and Dunbar was that Doctson was a total draft bust, and he was a first round draft pick at that. Not even sure if he’s in the NFL at all. He was drafted high and just never came close to filling his potential.

Dunbar was an unheard of Undrafted Free Agent (UDFA) who started as a WR. Then Gruden had him switch to CB. Dunbar has improved every season and is now the second or third best CB in the NFL. He’s got one season left on his contract. No guaranteed money, so if he gets hurt, he gets nothing. So I see where he’s coming from. There have been so many injuries on this team, including some really bad one like Alex Smith, so I can understand an outstanding player like Dunbar worried about getting hurt before he gets a new, big contract for his level of play.

Get him in a good contract with guaranteed money and let’s move down the road. He’s going to be one of the cornerstones (no pun intended!) of the defense.


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Im fine with the team keeping him . Just that maybe he is not very tough , he might not be RR / JDR type of player ? Would love to have a pair of great corners for the next few years .

[Warthog]

Originally Posted by budw38

Im fine with the team keeping him . Just that maybe he is not very tough , he might not be RR / JDR type of player ? Would love to have a pair of great corners for the next few years .

Yeah, the hit on Dunbar is his injuries and missed games. If the redskins end up trading him it’s probably because of his injury issues. Or because he’s not buying into RR’s program. But if they trade him for draft picks it still means that they need to find good to draft picks or FA at:

LB
CB x 2 ( Dunbar gone)
FS

So I still think the Redskins will try to re-sign Dunbar as a homegrown talent!

[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by budw38

While I agree with you , I will give you a little something . Two years ago , when The Skins decided to not pick up the option on J. Doctson ( WR ) , we were at a party with a guy who worked with the Skins Med/Training staff . After a few cold ones , he finally answered us about Doctson . His reply …. biggest crybaby he had been around at NFL level . Next biggest crybaby … Dunbar . Maybe he is not really ready for camp RR / Del Rio ?

This is my biggest concern. He doesnt play through pain which means he will miss games every season for things other players will play through. If true, I am sure the team knows this and might be why a deal wasnt done. Perhaps they expressed this to Dunbar and he got his panties in a bunch.

The more I think about it, see if you can get a 3rd and move on from him. He is only going to give 10 games at most per season.

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Everybody treats you different when you are out with an injury. Players that miss time with pulls, like a groin or hamstring, are called “babies, sissies and soft” behind their backs. Unless the injury is visible or diagnosable, like a compound fracture or torn ACL, everyone in the organization will question the player’s toughness at some level.

I did not want to be in that category, but I also knew I could not run. I had never questioned myself and my NFL career before, but I was having doubts about my future. I shared that with a fellow linebacker, Mark Fields, who was the best athlete I had ever been around. Fields gave me words of advice I had never heard before.

He said: “Take care of yourself first. This is a hardcore business. If the team gets you on tape practicing, they will cut you the next day and you will get nothing. But they are probably cutting you anyway since you haven’t practiced, so they have to pay you for being injured.”

This is a major dilemma that occurs every preseason around the NFL. Fringe players who are eating up a roster spot get injured. They cannot practice, thus they are not helping the team. If the team feels like the player has potential, the organization will give the player some time to try and get healthy. But if the team feels like the player is not good enough, they would like to move on as quickly as possible.

That is where injury settlements come into play. Season-ending injuries end up on injured reserve. Players with “minor” injuries are paid a fraction of their salary to, more or less, go away. That sounds cruel, but players come to understand this practice is part of the deal when signing up to play in the NFL.

I remember a veteran signing later in training camp. The guy had no chance of making the team but all the other players at that position had nagging injuries and coach wanted to hold them out of the preseason game. The player, who had quite a few years under his belt, knew the score and how to work the system.

He “feigned” an injury in the game, a pulled calf muscle. Not season-ending, but enough to get a four-week payday on an injury settlement. I remember sitting by him in the training room saying, “I put my time in, now gotta get that retirement.” He smiled all the way out of the complex on his way to the airport.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...n-nfl-injuries
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OT - but I always question when a player gets injured 3 snaps into the first OTAs. Cooley said players get hurt over the summer then come to camp, hide the tear or whatever it is, 3 drills in they go down and now claim injury from practice.

I know Rueben Foster had a pretty significant injury but I do question whether he hurt himself outside of football then hid it until he got to OTAs.

[SunnySide]

Entering last yr of contract + little guaranteed $ = probable holdout

Couple of thoughts

- 18: numbers of games played out of the possible 32 last 2 years. Is he a guy that will play through pain? Will he play at 80% or does he personally require him being 95% and above?

- 28 years old when 2020 starts, that not old.

- 56.9% completion rate against this season. That is excellent.

- 52: times targeted last season, thats low, 77th rank among CBs, could this mean J No just left to many guys open so a QB didnt have to look his way? That his sample size is too small to forecast future success comfortably? or is it just bc he only played 11 games.

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What I dont understand is the timing. Why now? RR just meet his staff for the first time on Monday Feb 10. He and his agent had to know that the new regime would need some time to get caught up and then address contract concerns.

Initially I thought this issue of not having him resigned already was another Bruce failure to do basic communication with players. But then he says they did talk previously but he hasnt talked to the new regime yet.

Perhaps he and his agent wanted to get his name circulating out there as early as possible so teams may consider acquiring him as they also come up with a FA plan.

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My bottom line -

(1) I like Dunbar, I dont see him as the No. 2 overall best corner in the NFL like PPF does but I do acknowledge that they know more than I do with my fan eye ball test.

If he wants a 5/65M/40G ... I think I would maybe might do that but that would really be stretching me. Much more comfortable at like a 4/40/30 deal. Which who knows, maybe he would have taken last year

(2) I dont blame a player for contract efforts if they are going into their final year.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-ran...hrough-week-17