Healthcare thread

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Serious question:

What’s the downside of a socialized health care system?

Your taxes go up a little, but then you don’t have to pay deductibles or premiums. Studies vary, but they all show it comes close to evening out for the average citizen. No more medical bills. No more fighting with insurance companies. No more medical debt.

So what’s the downside?

We already have socialized primary education systems, Socialized infrastructure, social security, etc. we’re all used to paying taxes that benefit society as a whole - so why is it some people are so vehemently opposed to doing the same for health care?

I fundamentally don’t understand why something which benefits EVERYONE is so controversial. So if you think it’s a horrible idea, please explain to me why you think so.


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My previous answer didn't reply to your points on socialized primary education, infrastructure, and social security. I have 2 responses to that as well.
The first piggy backs on the innovation argument in my previous response. In 2 of those 3 areas -primary education and infrastructure - I think most people would agree we fall woefully short of where we "should" be. I think it is a fair statement that primary education is caught in a huge political quagmire between the powerful teachers association and the charter school ideas of the conservative side, would we have that if we had more of a capitalistic approach with a safety net, I don't know, but in 50 years do we want our medical system to look like our primary schools - inner cities failing, taxes skyrocketing -see md's new education bill. Or our infrastructure, have you seen how hard that has been to pass even though all the politicians give lip service to it. What about Dominos push to fill potholes, is the socialized system really working out so much better than private, again I don't know but when you see the advances of private companies like Uber and Lyft one could wonder where our infrastructure would be if 50 years ago we had encouraged more privatization. I don't know, but can you guarantee it would be worse? Would a private company see the traffic around the dc beltway as an opportunity to build a better mousetrap (ie elon musk's hyperloop) instead of seeing it as politicians do -how do we get the taxpayers to buy into increased taxes for something they don't use.

The second answer goes to social security, and I am thankful for social security, but it is either going to go bankrupt or to be an incredible burden against the government budget. The politicians know they need to make common sense changes like raising the retirement age and income testing recipients, but those are untenable political choices ao they keep kicking it down the road hoping some other politician will have to make the damning decisions. Imagine our whole health system frozen in a state of dire financial need and politicians being tasked to make tough financial calls. We already know with the hyper politicisation of the ACA that few if any politicians will make the hard votes against their political lives.

So that is how I would respond to the claim we already have socialized institutions why not add our medical system. First, most of our socialized institutions fail many of those they are intended to serve - primary schools/infrastructure. Second, they become political hotwires- social security, that prevent politicians to make needed changes until it hits crisis points or the economy crashes around them. For me, i would rather the goverment focus on the safety net, the edges that private markets struggle with, and let the bulk of the system run and grow external to political whims and government red ink.


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[Buffalo Bob]

What I think definitely needs to be done is a ceiling for charges. I can't remember when and where but I saw a study where they took people to various emergency rooms with different minor ailments. The common one was a sprained ankle, the charges varied from $300 to $13,000. That is freaking nuts! It is like someone spinning a game show wheel to come up with numbers. I can understand costs varying somewhat by overhead costs but over 40x as much?
I wonder how they do come up with pricing?

I have always like math and numbers strangely enough I remember by parents paying $27 for an emergency room visit I had at the age of 8 in 1969 to get stitched up, 17 of them as I remember. Put that in an inflation calculator, that is $190 in today's money. That was a small hospital out in the country in Northern California. What would that cost today?