Coronavirus (political)

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by MTK

Definitely don't agree with censoring Rogan. If anything it's entertaining how much of a moron he is at times.

Like here where he gets fact checked live yet can't admit he's wrong

He says some dumb stuff for sure. I just don’t get the not taking a vaccine but then be ok with unproven therapeutics? I don’t know if that’s in this clip, but his remarks in the past have reflected it.

[nonniey]

Intelligencer article from Jonathan Chait. (Interesting to see a progressive writer attack the progressive position on school closures).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opini...-it/ar-AASRK6I

"Recently, Nate Silver found himself in the unenviable role of main character of the day on Twitter because he proposed that school closures were a “disastrous, invasion-of-Iraq magnitude (or perhaps greater) policy decision." The comparison generated overwhelming anger and mockery, and it is not an easy one to defend: A fiasco that led to hundreds of thousands of deaths and rearranged the regional power structure is a very high bar to clear. Weighing policy failures in such utterly different realms to each other is so inherently difficult that any discussion quickly devolves into “Could Superman beat up Mighty Mouse?” territory.
But these complications do not fully explain the sheer rage generated by Silver. The furnace-hot backlash seemed to be triggered by Silver’s assumption that school closings were not only a mistake — a possibility many progressives have quietly begun to accept — but an error of judgment that was sufficiently consequential and foreseeable that we can’t just shrug it off as a bad dice roll. It was a historic blunder that reveals some deeper flaw in the methods that produced it and which demands corrective action.

That unnerving implication has a mounting pile of evidence to support it. It is now indisputable, and almost undisputed, that the year and a quarter of virtual school imposed devastating consequences on the students who endured it. Studies have found that virtual school left students nearly half a year behind pace, on average, with the learning loss falling disproportionately on low-income, Latino, and Black students. Perhaps a million students functionally dropped out of school altogether. .......What happened next was truly disturbing: The left by and large rejected this evidence. Progressives were instead carried along by two predominant impulses. One was a zero-COVID policy that refused to weigh the trade-off of any measure that could even plausibly claim to suppress the pandemic. The other was deference to teachers unions, who were organizing to keep schools closed. Those strands combined into a refusal to acknowledge the scale or importance of losing in-person learning with a moralistic insistence that anybody who disagreed was callous about death or motivated by greed.

Social scientists have measured the factors that drove schools to stay closed last year. One study found schools with unionized teachers, more of which were located in more Democratic-voting districts, were more likely to remain all virtual. Another likewise found “local political partisanship and union strength,” rather than the local severity of COVID, predicted school closing..... "

[nonniey]

Another interesting article for Unherd.

https://unherd.com/2022/02/were-masks-a-waste-of-time/

..."Only a few skeptical observers drilled into the data that could be found on sites such as the New York Times — even if the paper’s own reporters made little of it. The most prolific of these was Ian Miller, who over the past two years has published copious data-driven commentary on the track record of various Covid public health interventions.....

[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by nonniey

Another interesting article for Unherd.

https://unherd.com/2022/02/were-masks-a-waste-of-time/

..."Only a few skeptical observers drilled into the data that could be found on sites such as the New York Times — even if the paper’s own reporters made little of it. The most prolific of these was Ian Miller, who over the past two years has published copious data-driven commentary on the track record of various Covid public health interventions.....

But as Miller notes, it was not just during the early months of the pandemic that officials said masks were ineffective. They had said so for years, and Fauci had advised against masks not just in public statements but in private emails in early 2020.

^^ from the article

Fauci wrote: "Masks are really for infected people to prevent them from spreading infection to people who are not infected rather than protecting uninfected people from acquiring infection.

"The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through material. It might, however, provide some slight benefit in keep out gross droplets if someone coughs or sneezes on you

^^ this is the actual email (assuming author is referring to this feb '20 email). Pretty clear Dr. Fauci did not say masks are ineffective like the author blanket states.

Me personally ... i think they should have said from day 1 that only N95 or similar masks are truly effective and that the clothe masks are only good for spittle or droplets. I understand the logic being the "noble lie" but it did more harm than good. People think these clothe masks being made in grandmas basement = mask.

But Trump wanted to downplay or temper any panic so he scuttled the idea of sending every american family N95s ...

N95s should have been given to everyone free of charge day 1.

I was in harris Teeter 2 days ago and they just box after box, thousands of N95 masks for free. I could have taken 100 if I wanted. This should have been the scene from day 1.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

But as Miller notes, it was not just during the early months of the pandemic that officials said masks were ineffective. They had said so for years, and Fauci had advised against masks not just in public statements but in private emails in early 2020.

^^ from the article

Fauci wrote: "Masks are really for infected people to prevent them from spreading infection to people who are not infected rather than protecting uninfected people from acquiring infection.

"The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through material. It might, however, provide some slight benefit in keep out gross droplets if someone coughs or sneezes on you

^^ this is the actual email (assuming author is referring to this feb '20 email). Pretty clear Dr. Fauci did not say masks are ineffective like the author blanket states.

Me personally ... i think they should have said from day 1 that only N95 or similar masks are truly effective and that the clothe masks are only good for spittle or droplets. I understand the logic being the "noble lie" but it did more harm than good. People think these clothe masks being made in grandmas basement = mask.

But Trump wanted to downplay or temper any panic so he scuttled the idea of sending every american family N95s ...

N95s should have been given to everyone free of charge day 1.

I was in harris Teeter 2 days ago and they just box after box, thousands of N95 masks for free. I could have taken 100 if I wanted. This should have been the scene from day 1.

From day 1, they didn't have it on day 1 . Many of these articles are what I call Monday Morning QB shit. Great to be right 2 years after the fact. As for schools and kids ,everyone knew it would have a negative impact on the kids but as is the case now ,no one cared about what happen to the Teachers as did no one care about the people working in the Super Markets . No one knew exactly how to handle a pandemic. Masks did help believe or don't but they did.

[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by Giantone

From day 1, they didn't have it on day 1 . Many of these articles are what I call Monday Morning QB shit. Great to be right 2 years after the fact. As for schools and kids ,everyone knew it would have a negative impact on the kids but as is the case now ,no one cared about what happen to the Teachers as did no one care about the people working in the Super Markets . No one knew exactly how to handle a pandemic. Masks did help believe or don't but they did.

Masks definitely helped. Certain masks helped more than others. And I agree, lots of monday morning quarterbacking re covid.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

Masks definitely helped. Certain masks helped more than others. And I agree, lots of monday morning quarterbacking re covid.

Yup a lot of the so called experts were wrong about a lot of things. Cloth masks - wrong, lockdowns- wrong, lab leak - wrong. School policy - big time wrong, clownish actually

Watching these blue states suddenly change policy just this week together is really something. New Jersey governor actually said he went to focus groups and based the change there…actually admitted it wasn’t based on science. They are making these changes simply based on politics.

Thanks Glenn Youngkin in getting a bi-partisan bill passed and setting the debate as other states just this week have followed your lead

Virginia Senate passes bill to make masks optional in schools

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/l...6-3fa431f00605

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by nonniey

Another interesting article for Unherd.

https://unherd.com/2022/02/were-masks-a-waste-of-time/

..."Only a few skeptical observers drilled into the data that could be found on sites such as the New York Times — even if the paper’s own reporters made little of it. The most prolific of these was Ian Miller, who over the past two years has published copious data-driven commentary on the track record of various Covid public health interventions.....

While I don't disagree with the authors assertion on cloth masks and the use of mandates as well. The logic is woefully flawed and really part of the problem. First nobody should use data collected by NY Times as anything reliable for a data driven analysis. The inability to decipher which variables are evident and which are not. It is akin to saying California has the worst state wide air quality therefore their air control mandates are ineffective. It really is part of the problem with the division between the narratives.

I also really dislike how he uses the unmeetable expectations of wearing masks and the potential for health effects due to bacterial growth inside the masks. By that logic we should never wear underwear because if you wear them longer than you should it increases the likelihood of fungal infections. Yet that argument is absurd. We know to change our underwear people wearing masks should know to change them too.

[mooby]

I saw this snippet in the WaPo roundup this morning and thought it was pretty accurate.

Originally Posted by WaPo

Arguably the best response to the pandemic happened under Trump: Harnessing the power of the private sector to produce a safe, effective vaccine that today is the best weapon against covid. So did the worst thing: Sowing politically driven anti-vaccine doubts, chiefly from conservative politicians and the right-wing media ecosystem. The overwhelming majority of Americans dying from the virus is unvaccinated.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by mooby

I saw this snippet in the WaPo roundup this morning and thought it was pretty accurate.

Sadly you can see what trump actually had his hands on and what he didn't. The people around him are the ones that got the vaccine going , the anti vacc is all trump himself.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Sadly you can see what trump actually had his hands on and what he didn't. The people around him are the ones that got the vaccine going , the anti vacc is all trump himself.

I mean I'm more willing to give credit where it's due. Trump definitely played a role in aligning his policy with the private sector to get the vaccine rolling.

He also played a big role in his anti-establishment "you can't trust the gov't" platform that anti-vaccers love to spout.

G1 I sympathize - it's so easy to hate on Trump for literally almost everything else he's done. But he played a role - whether big or small is debateable - in getting the ball rolling with the vaccine.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by mooby

I mean I'm more willing to give credit where it's due. Trump definitely played a role in aligning his policy with the private sector to get the vaccine rolling.

He also played a big role in his anti-establishment "you can't trust the gov't" platform that anti-vaccers love to spout.

G1 I sympathize - it's so easy to hate on Trump for literally almost everything else he's done. But he played a role - whether big or small is debateable - in getting the ball rolling with the vaccine.

mooby, I just see through the trump lies and BS ,the stuff chico throws out there. Anything good that happen during his time was done in spite of him not because of him. We can't loose sight of that fact.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by mooby

I saw this snippet in the WaPo roundup this morning and thought it was pretty accurate.

Lol, yeah except I wonder who did the sowing exactly? I do think trump and his administration made mistakes…no doubt. But let’s look at the sowing:

Let me know Mooby if you want me the post the all the media headlines again of “don’t worry about covid, the flu is more deadly” when this started. Or the Pelosi, Biden quotes about closing the borders is racist. Or the quotes promoted by sometimes paid dem pundits of not taking the Trump vaccine which was rushed…or the Kamala Harris quote of not trusting the vaccine made by Trump prior to the election. Gaslighting is immensely dishonest. How about the changing, inconsistent messaging by the CDC?

This isn’t a one way street. Jfc Biden was handed everything and even got a huge bill together and passed and still failed to deliver results on covid. His strategy has been a failure.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Lol, yeah except I wonder who did the sowing exactly? I do think trump and his administration made mistakes…no doubt. But let’s look at the sowing:

Let me know Mooby if you want me the post the all the media headlines again of “don’t worry about covid, the flu is more deadly” when this started. Or the Pelosi, Biden quotes about closing the borders is racist. Or the quotes promoted by sometimes paid dem pundits of not taking the Trump vaccine which was rushed…or the Kamala Harris quote of not trusting the vaccine made by Trump prior to the election. Gaslighting is immensely dishonest. How about the changing, inconsistent messaging by the CDC?

This isn’t a one way street. Jfc Biden was handed everything and even got a huge bill together and passed and still failed to deliver results on covid. His strategy has been a failure.

JHC, stop the stupid chico .Mooby is actually defending your dirt bag guy and you still come out and lie.LIFG!

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Lol, yeah except I wonder who did the sowing exactly? I do think trump and his administration made mistakes…no doubt. But let’s look at the sowing:

Let me know Mooby if you want me the post the all the media headlines again of “don’t worry about covid, the flu is more deadly” when this started. Or the Pelosi, Biden quotes about closing the borders is racist. Or the quotes promoted by sometimes paid dem pundits of not taking the Trump vaccine which was rushed…or the Kamala Harris quote of not trusting the vaccine made by Trump prior to the election. Gaslighting is immensely dishonest. How about the changing, inconsistent messaging by the CDC?

This isn’t a one way street. Jfc Biden was handed everything and even got a huge bill together and passed and still failed to deliver results on covid. His strategy has been a failure.

You can do whatever you want, 'tis a free country after all.

After all these years you still think it's gonna click for either one of us and it will all make sense? Keep fighting the good fight Chico.

If you really want, go ahead and tell me your 5 point plan to make dumbass anti-vaccers/freedom lovers trust a liberal government. Keep in mind though, the only time Trump has ever been booed by his base was when he was promoting the vaccine.