Coronavirus (political)

[skinsfan69]

This may sound ignorant but what are we supposed to do? Wait a year or two for a vaccine to come out and bankrupt the country and ourselves because less than 1% of the people (most w/ serious underlying conditions) are at risk? I'm sorry but that doesn't sit well w/ me.

It's time to get back to a normal life, open up the economy imo. The people who have underlying conditions stay the hell home, work from home, wait it out and keep your distance.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

This may sound ignorant but what are we supposed to do? Wait a year or two for a vaccine to come out and bankrupt the country and ourselves because less than 1% of the people (most w/ serious underlying conditions) are at risk? I'm sorry but that doesn't sit well w/ me.



It's time to get back to a normal life, open up the economy imo. The people who have underlying conditions stay the hell home, work from home, wait it out and keep your distance.

34 states have less than 200 deaths.

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[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

This may sound ignorant but what are we supposed to do? Wait a year or two for a vaccine to come out and bankrupt the country and ourselves because less than 1% of the people (most w/ serious underlying conditions) are at risk? I'm sorry but that doesn't sit well w/ me.

It's time to get back to a normal life, open up the economy imo. The people who have underlying conditions stay the hell home, work from home, wait it out and keep your distance.

Well yeah, that’s the direction we’re headed in, not as easy at it sounds though depending on where you live


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[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

This may sound ignorant but what are we supposed to do? Wait a year or two for a vaccine to come out and bankrupt the country and ourselves because less than 1% of the people (most w/ serious underlying conditions) are at risk? I'm sorry but that doesn't sit well w/ me.

It's time to get back to a normal life, open up the economy imo. The people who have underlying conditions stay the hell home, work from home, wait it out and keep your distance.

That's exactly what the governors seem to want to do. I think they realized long ago that the country would bankrupt, and their mentality now is just kind of like "F It".

USA is on a fast track to becoming bankrupt as a country, like i said, 300 + million people out of work by years end. This could be the end of us as the world power, i think in many ways it already is.

to be clear: I AM NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER - but Trump seems like the only guy who wants to try and get America going again, and he is being met with resistance at every turn. I believe now that the governors WANT to bankrupt their states just so they can go to Trump and say "F You, we will never open again because YOU want us to".

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

That's exactly what the governors seem to want to do. I think they realized long ago that the country would bankrupt, and their mentality now is just kind of like "F It".

USA is on a fast track to becoming bankrupt as a country, like i said, 300 + million people out of work by years end. This could be the end of us as the world power, i think in many ways it already is.

to be clear: I AM NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER - but Trump seems like the only guy who wants to try and get America going again, and he is being met with resistance at every turn. I believe now that the governors WANT to bankrupt their states just so they can go to Trump and say "F You, we will never open again because YOU want us to".

Snake, I am sorry but you are going off the rails with this. Has anybody ever told you cutting off the hand to spite the face is nonsense?

Governors are preparing the way they're preparing because Trump said the states need to be running point on this, and the feds are the backup option. This is what happens when the leader of this nation doesn't take charge and aggressively act before the outbreak to stop it. Now it's widespread and we can only hope to contain it. Everything we do from this point on is about limiting the damage. Restoring societal norms even a month from now would be a disaster, and it would only allow COVID-19 to keep spreading. Is it safe to assume from your response you are alright with however many people have to die just to try and save the economy? And the hospital system being overwhelmed for however long it takes to find a vaccine?

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by mooby

Snake, I am sorry but you are going off the rails with this. Has anybody ever told you cutting off the hand to spite the face is nonsense?

Governors are preparing the way they're preparing because Trump said the states need to be running point on this, and the feds are the backup option. This is what happens when the leader of this nation doesn't take charge and aggressively act before the outbreak to stop it. Now it's widespread and we can only hope to contain it. Everything we do from this point on is about limiting the damage. Restoring societal norms even a month from now would be a disaster, and it would only allow COVID-19 to keep spreading. Is it safe to assume from your response you are alright with however many people have to die just to try and save the economy? And the hospital system being overwhelmed for however long it takes to find a vaccine?

No one here has to apologize to me for anything they say to me. I consider you all friends, and in any debate we have i imagine it being no different than just some guys/gals sitting around the bbq having different opinions.

I have felt that what they want from the beginning is to keep all businesses / schools, etc. closed until they come up with a vaccine two years or so from now.

They don't seem to have the ability to draw a line between public health and economic / country health. Right now the mentality seems to be one OR the other. I think there is a way to do both. I do not want people to die, but they are going to keep dying every day even in spite of coronavirus, there are still other things like cancer, car crashes, drug overdoses, suicides, homicides, etc. and society has never had to shut down because of this.

Many of the jobs lost will never come back. In this country, you have likely already seen the end of movie theaters, theme parks, etc. Possibly school. Soon maybe, professional sports. Restaurants are hanging on, but even with curbside options they wont last forever. Those things wont be able to attempt a comeback until there is a vaccine years down the road.

And my fear lies that with so many people unemployed, the system is strained beyond the capacity that it was ever intended for. Unemployment benefits depend on taxes to fund it. With 85% of your country unemployed by the end of the year, what happens when there is no more money to pay all of the people out of work? As companies and entire industries continue to go out of business, the next thing will be massive food shortages as farms / meat suppliers, etc. go out of business. Trucking companies, with nothing to haul anywhere, fold up. Its an avalanche/snowball effect that only finishes when everything has been destroyed and society builds back.

I hope that the USA is looking at other countries that are (so far) easing restrictions and slowly and gradually returning to normal, and I hope we are learning something from them. This is a time where all nations can work together and put aside differences for a common good.

[Buffalo Bob]

Quote:
On Monday, Newsom along with Washington Gov. Jay Inslee and Oregon Gov. Kate Brown announced a regional partnership to coordinate the reopening of the West Coast. In the northeast, seven other states, including New York and New Jersey, the two hardest-hit states by the coronavirus, announced a similar plan to coordinate reopening.

With the exception of Massachusetts, all ten states actively developing plans to reopen are led by Democratic governors.

Did anyone see Newsome's 6 point plan? That stuff isn't happening any time soon. It makes mention of physical distancing in schools, like that is possible without building a lot more new schools. His plan is a big of joke as his earlier claim that 25 million Californians will get sick. The dude just doesn't live in the real world.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Buffalo Bob

Quote:
On Monday, Newsom along with Washington Gov. Jay Inslee and Oregon Gov. Kate Brown announced a regional partnership to coordinate the reopening of the West Coast. In the northeast, seven other states, including New York and New Jersey, the two hardest-hit states by the coronavirus, announced a similar plan to coordinate reopening.

With the exception of Massachusetts, all ten states actively developing plans to reopen are led by Democratic governors.

Did anyone see Newsome's 6 point plan? That stuff isn't happening any time soon. It makes mention of physical distancing in schools, like that is possible without building a lot more new schools. His plan is a big of joke as his earlier claim that 25 million Californians will get sick. The dude just doesn't live in the real world.

That was a worst case scenario but with how quickly things change and how little we still know with limited testing predictions were bound to be inaccurate

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

That's exactly what the governors seem to want to do. I think they realized long ago that the country would bankrupt, and their mentality now is just kind of like "F It".

USA is on a fast track to becoming bankrupt as a country, like i said, 300 + million people out of work by years end. This could be the end of us as the world power, i think in many ways it already is.

to be clear: I AM NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER - but Trump seems like the only guy who wants to try and get America going again, and he is being met with resistance at every turn. I believe now that the governors WANT to bankrupt their states just so they can go to Trump and say "F You, we will never open again because YOU want us to".

Your post makes zero sense.

On Monday, Newsom along with Washington Gov. Jay Inslee and Oregon Gov. Kate Brown announced a regional partnership to coordinate the reopening of the West Coast. In the northeast, seven other states, including New York and New Jersey, the two hardest-hit states by the coronavirus, announced a similar plan to coordinate reopening.

With the exception of Massachusetts, all ten states actively developing plans to reopen are led by Democratic governors.

LINK

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

This may sound ignorant but what are we supposed to do? Wait a year or two for a vaccine to come out and bankrupt the country and ourselves because less than 1% of the people (most w/ serious underlying conditions) are at risk? I'm sorry but that doesn't sit well w/ me.

It's time to get back to a normal life, open up the economy imo. The people who have underlying conditions stay the hell home, work from home, wait it out and keep your distance.

That shows a lack of understanding of math & statistics though. This plan will result in a spike such that more people will need ventilators at the same time than we actually have ventilators. Meaning those people that can't get access to a ventilator will die, when they otherwise might have been saved.

So you're not just talking about a threat to the 1%. You're talking about adding another 0.2% on top of the 1% it will already kill under normal course.

In other words, you're advocating for causing more death. Now, you don't know you're doing that, because you don't understand the math. So it's not like I'm accusing you of callousness, just ignorance of the statistics.

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

That shows a lack of understanding of math & statistics though. This plan will result in a spike such that more people will need ventilators at the same time than we actually have ventilators. Meaning those people that can't get access to a ventilator will die, when they otherwise might have been saved.

So you're not just talking about a threat to the 1%. You're talking about adding another 0.2% on top of the 1% it will already kill under normal course.

In other words, you're advocating for causing more death. Now, you don't know you're doing that, because you don't understand the math. So it's not like I'm accusing you of callousness, just ignorance of the statistics.

So then to make sure i am understanding you, the only thing we can do is hide in our homes for two more years or so until they get a successful vaccine. I am not being a smartass, i am asking you.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

So then to make sure i am understanding you, the only thing we can do is hide in our homes for two more years or so until they get a successful vaccine. I am not being a smartass, i am asking you.

Not hide in our homes non stop for two years, but you watch the numbers closely. We should stay in our homes until the growth in new cases is down to a point where you can start to come out and play a little bit. Modelers can do the math to say if we have X number of new cases per day that equates to Y admissions to hospitals 7 days later, etc etc. As long as those expected admissions to hospitals are below the capacity of those hospitals, then you're good to come out and play.

That will spread the disease around a little more. But we should view that as an inevitability. When the disease starts to spike again and the new case growth gets too high, then we go back to social distancing.

And we might have to do that on/off/on/off approach for the next 18 months until we have a vaccine.

This helps you balance the economy a bit with the spread of the illness. This illness is going to kill a certain amount of people, you just want to give those people a chance to beat it with access to a ventilator and a hospital bed. If you can't give them a hospital bed and a ventilator then you've failed to fight the virus and it's resulted in more death than it needed to.

If we get a vaccine sooner, then all the better, but I'd expect to go on and off with stay at home orders for 18 months or so.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Not hide in our homes non stop for two years, but you watch the numbers closely. We should stay in our homes until the growth in new cases is down to a point where you can start to come out and play a little bit. Modelers can do the math to say if we have X number of new cases per day that equates to Y admissions to hospitals 7 days later, etc etc. As long as those expected admissions to hospitals are below the capacity of those hospitals, then you're good to come out and play.

That will spread the disease around a little more. But we should view that as an inevitability. When the disease starts to spike again and the new case growth gets too high, then we go back to social distancing.

And we might have to do that on/off/on/off approach for the next 18 months until we have a vaccine.

This helps you balance the economy a bit with the spread of the illness. This illness is going to kill a certain amount of people, you just want to give those people a chance to beat it with access to a ventilator and a hospital bed. If you can't give them a hospital bed and a ventilator then you've failed to fight the virus and it's resulted in more death than it needed to.

If we get a vaccine sooner, then all the better, but I'd expect to go on and off with stay at home orders for 18 months or so.

Here is the way I see it we have 619,000 confrimed cases and 27,000 confirmed deaths that is over a 4% fatality rate. If we factor in the CDC evaluation that 25% of cases are asymptomatic at the most we are lookuing at 774,000 cases. Even with that value the death rate is 3.5%. This is all with the measures in place. This isn't even including an exteremly high hospitilization rate https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e3.htm (For March ). If we remove stay at home orders what does that infection rate jump to? Are we really willing to risk a 3.5% death rate with a much larger infected population? If people are worried about the economy they really need to think about what those values would do to the economy.

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

Here is the way I see it we have 619,000 confrimed cases and 27,000 confirmed deaths that is over a 4% fatality rate. If we factor in the CDC evaluation that 25% of cases are asymptomatic at the most we are lookuing at 774,000 cases. Even with that value the death rate is 3.5%. This is all with the measures in place. This isn't even including an exteremly high hospitilization rate https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e3.htm (For March ). If we remove stay at home orders what does that infection rate jump to? Are we really willing to risk a 3.5% death rate with a much larger infected population? If people are worried about the economy they really need to think about what those values would do to the economy.

I guess some of the thought process says that if you shut down all restaurants, schools, hotels, malls, etc... for at least the two years that it takes to get a vaccine out to the masses, is there permanent economic damage done by that point. Could the country have collapsed in that time frame?. Is there reasonable chances that the fed. government could collapse entirely within two years time, with the majority of people unemployed, etc...

I don't have these answers because i think we are in uncharted territory here, what is happening and what we are doing has never happened before. Two years of lockdowns, etc.. might be the death blow for America.

I would think at some point the massive food shortages, civil unrest, rioting, suicides, overdoses, etc. as people lose all hope, etc., would have also have an effect on the overall death toll. No easy answer. Who knows, before May 1st, maybe Trump and the governors realize that there is no way to re-open the states or the country, and we are on a doomed path and nothing we can do will change the course. I have no idea.

[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I guess some of the thought process says that if you shut down all restaurants, schools, hotels, malls, etc... for at least the two years that it takes to get a vaccine out to the masses, is there permanent economic damage done by that point.

I think we have already blown past the damage of the recession of 2008 and quickly headed to match the great depression. There are businesses killed off by the last recession that to this day have never come back, one was the limousine building industry I used to sell my own products to.

Over and above the businesses that did not survive this shutdown, the fall out will take out many others as people behave differently out of fear of being in crowds on top of people that change their spending habits. This is the first time in many peoples lives they have been blind sided by loss of income. Most people who have been fired or laid off saw it coming, this crisis was the exception to that rule. I believe it will cause people to increase their cash savings and rainy day fund like never before. Businesses who cater toward hobbies and entertainment are going to take a big hit as people are going to start saving a huge chunk of the money they spent on those items.