When is Enough ,Enough?

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

First off nobody should be listening to Adam Carrolla as the voice of logic. Second there is a big difference between people ignoring social distancing to just go to the beach and those that are doing it to try to drive change to a lethally flawed system. Both do make me nervous for potential spikes in cases and deaths.

Protesters several weeks ago, it was the same whining complaints. Now we see the obvious reversal of the narrative. You and the media can’t both ways.

Lethally flawed, absolutely not. This is a terrible murder by a dirty cop no question...It’s simply not the norm. Crime data doesn’t support it. This is exactly what the media does, they will take this and weave it into a narrative which is not based in fact...it’s emotional, tragic situation where we can get better, but it’s not the norm.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Protesters several weeks ago, it was the same whining complaints. Now we see the obvious reversal of the narrative. You and the media can’t both ways.

Lethally flawed, absolutely not. This is a terrible murder by a dirty cop no question...It’s simply not the norm. Crime data doesn’t support it. This is exactly what the media does, they will take this and weave it into a narrative which is not based in fact...it’s emotional, tragic situation where we can get better, but it’s not the norm.

Worrying about dollars and worrying about peoples lives are not the same. You see a reversal of narrative I see a sticking to the narrative; public health and life are more important.

In terms of data I'm sorry it is just not true here is some peer reviewed papers for you to help you better understand what is going on:

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/lasr.12366

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/do...PH.2018.304559

There is a significant gap in training in police forces. Especially when it comes to mental health and social emotional disabilities both of which impact African Americans at a higher rate. Going further African Americans males receive longer sentences than white males for the same crime (https://www.ussc.gov/research/resear...ces-sentencing) This leads to likely increases in recidivism leading to increased police interactions.

For the record I am not anti-police as with any profession that vast majority are honest and hardworking people. That does not mean that they handle situations appropriately. We have as a society decided not to fund and properly train our police compared to other developed countries.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

Worrying about dollars and worrying about peoples lives are not the same. You see a reversal of narrative I see a sticking to the narrative; public health and life are more important.

In terms of data I'm sorry it is just not true here is some peer reviewed papers for you to help you better understand what is going on:

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/lasr.12366

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/do...PH.2018.304559

There is a significant gap in training in police forces. Especially when it comes to mental health and social emotional disabilities both of which impact African Americans at a higher rate. Going further African Americans males receive longer sentences than white males for the same crime (https://www.ussc.gov/research/resear...ces-sentencing) This leads to likely increases in recidivism leading to increased police interactions.

For the record I am not anti-police as with any profession that vast majority are honest and hardworking people. That does not mean that they handle situations appropriately. We have as a society decided not to fund and properly train our police compared to other developed countries.

Thanks I’ll look through it. A couple things off the bat strike me as kinda off, especially if you are gonna dive into mental health and emotional issues...at the same time blame police And the justice system because they are not equipped. Look at root cause of why there is these issues. It’s like taking kids to school and acting like they are the baby sitter...the expectation they should need to deal with it is incorrect. Plus simply saying black people have more of these issues...not sure on that.

Recidivism rates is always a hot topic because that’s the key to curbing...but I’ll look at what you sent.

As someone who worked in juvenile justice, I did see emotional issues and resources were abundant to address these on many levels, a lot of time people don’t use them when there were free. You know what the driver is for juvenile crime and justice? Bad fucking parents period. I worked in a mostly white rural county and I worked in a major diverse city. Fact check: true. Substance abuse and mental issue distance second and third.

I agree about training always...but with the policing culture there needs to be active conversations about identifying bad police. Whistle blower protection through chain of command, review of all injuries suspects receive in police contact, etc

[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

As someone who worked in juvenile justice, I did see emotional issues and resources were abundant to address these on many levels, a lot of time people don’t use them when there were free. You know what the driver is for juvenile crime and justice? Bad fucking parents period. I worked in a mostly white rural county and I worked in a major diverse city. Fact check: true. Substance abuse and mental issue distance second and third.

I suppose I will disagree to an extent on the bad parents. My nephew is a sociopath for which there is no cure, he was given all kinds of drugs and all forms of parenting tried. At the age of 12 he went from an A student to the world's biggest loser. By the time he was 16 he had been in and out of juvenile hall 9 times. All kinds of parenting techniques were tried. His parents divorced when he was 10. Between the ages of 16 and 18 he lived with mom, dad, grandma, and uncle Bob. Now at the age of 25, he lives in prison. After he left my place when he was 18 a few months later he was thrown in jail for attempted strangulation of his girlfriend, he only got 2-5 years but he obviously parlayed that into a longer sentence. He is up for parole this October with a release date of 2023. I hope he keeps screwing up in prison the world is not safe with him breathing free air. He will eventually kill someone. Nothing is ever his fault and he actually bragged about the crimes he committed as a juvenile. He left here on very bad terms I only find updates on him from Goggling.

I have also seen quite a few loser kids come from good parents whose other siblings turned out just fine.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Thanks I’ll look through it. A couple things off the bat strike me as kinda off, especially if you are gonna dive into mental health and emotional issues...at the same time blame police And the justice system because they are not equipped. Look at root cause of why there is these issues. It’s like taking kids to school and acting like they are the baby sitter...the expectation they should need to deal with it is incorrect. Plus simply saying black people have more of these issues...not sure on that.

Recidivism rates is always a hot topic because that’s the key to curbing...but I’ll look at what you sent.

As someone who worked in juvenile justice, I did see emotional issues and resources were abundant to address these on many levels, a lot of time people don’t use them when there were free. You know what the driver is for juvenile crime and justice? Bad fucking parents period. I worked in a mostly white rural county and I worked in a major diverse city. Fact check: true. Substance abuse and mental issue distance second and third.

I agree about training always...but with the policing culture there needs to be active conversations about identifying bad police. Whistle blower protection through chain of command, review of all injuries suspects receive in police contact, etc

Bad parenting is a major issue. I work in a high school so I know what you mean. The amount of resources we are spending on social and emotional development increases every year. Ideally I would like to see those resources channeled towards the elementary schools where we can address behavior and societal norms at an early age (a social worker and behavior interventionist at every elementary school) and thus decrease lost time in the classroom due to management issues at the high school level. Ideally parents would be the driving force.

[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

Bad parenting is a major issue. I work in a high school so I know what you mean. The amount of resources we are spending on social and emotional development increases every year. Ideally I would like to see those resources channeled towards the elementary schools where we can address behavior and societal norms at an early age (a social worker and behavior interventionist at every elementary school) and thus decrease lost time in the classroom due to management issues at the high school level. Ideally parents would be the driving force.

Unfortunately some kids need an ass whipping from time to time, and that is considered child abuse now. I think replacing the belt with pills has led to issues.

I can remember being a kid and the fear of the belt kept me from smoking, petty theft, playing with matches, etc. Where I went to elementary school all the parents in the neighborhood stuck together. Even the ice cream man would rat a kid out. One time a couple friends of mine were trying cigarettes for the first time in a construction project long before they fenced them in.
They were spied a mile away by the guy who drove Helms Bakery truck. That was a long since defunct company that delivered baked goods door to door in SoCal. He ratted one kid out to the parents and he squealed on the other two. They all ended up with sore butts. The fear of that was why I didn't go with them.

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by Buffalo Bob

Unfortunately some kids need an ass whipping from time to time, and that is considered child abuse now. I think replacing the belt with pills has led to issues.

I can remember being a kid and the fear of the belt kept me from smoking, petty theft, playing with matches, etc. Where I went to elementary school all the parents in the neighborhood stuck together. Even the ice cream man would rat a kid out. One time a couple friends of mine were trying cigarettes for the first time in a construction project long before they fenced them in.
They were spied a mile away by the guy who drove Helms Bakery truck. That was a long since defunct company that delivered baked goods door to door in SoCal. He ratted one kid out to the parents and he squealed on the other two. They all ended up with sore butts. The fear of that was why I didn't go with them.

I think if we went back to that way now, most people wouldn't know when to draw the line on how much of a beating to give / too severe, etc..

Some of my grandma's siblings had permanent scarring from being whipped with switches / extension cords, etc..

My dad's step father was abusive and my dad has a divot in his shoulder where a big chunk of meat just came out from being beaten. He has scars on the back of his legs too.

And i want to believe that their parents didn't set out on purpose to savagely beat them, but i'm sure along the way it just happened and in the heat of the moment they could not stop themselves until after major harm was inflicted.

That's why i think it's probably good that parents aren't still beating / whipping their children like back in the old days.

[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I think if we went back to that way now, most people wouldn't know when to draw the line on how much of a beating to give / too severe, etc..

Some of my grandma's siblings had permanent scarring from being whipped with switches / extension cords, etc..

My dad's step father was abusive and my dad has a divot in his shoulder where a big chunk of meat just came out from being beaten. He has scars on the back of his legs too.

And i want to believe that their parents didn't set out on purpose to savagely beat them, but i'm sure along the way it just happened and in the heat of the moment they could not stop themselves until after major harm was inflicted.

That's why i think it's probably good that parents aren't still beating / whipping their children like back in the old days.

I am against abuse as I was abused also. A whack in the butt with a paddle will suffice. I knew many a kid where one swat one time was all they needed.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

Worrying about dollars and worrying about peoples lives are not the same. You see a reversal of narrative I see a sticking to the narrative; public health and life are more important.

In terms of data I'm sorry it is just not true here is some peer reviewed papers for you to help you better understand what is going on:

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/lasr.12366

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/do...PH.2018.304559

There is a significant gap in training in police forces. Especially when it comes to mental health and social emotional disabilities both of which impact African Americans at a higher rate. Going further African Americans males receive longer sentences than white males for the same crime (https://www.ussc.gov/research/resear...ces-sentencing) This leads to likely increases in recidivism leading to increased police interactions.

For the record I am not anti-police as with any profession that vast majority are honest and hardworking people. That does not mean that they handle situations appropriately. We have as a society decided not to fund and properly train our police compared to other developed countries.

I forget what link...but the information about black vs white sentencing is fairly legit from other sources I checked. I’d like to see more information on that to combat it...I would suspect it’s certain areas of the country. I’d like to see data and believe there is opportunity for reforms.

I also did a little digging about the school arrests and transitioning towards prison...there is opportunity there I believe mental health reform early in schools should be a norm as a school nurse. It’s shocking to see arrest figures so high in schools...but equally shocking is the violence against teachers which has steady risen over 15 years..:where gun violence in school has declined.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I forget what link...but the information about black vs white sentencing is fairly legit from other sources I checked. I’d like to see more information on that to combat it...I would suspect it’s certain areas of the country. I’d like to see data and believe there is opportunity for reforms.

I also did a little digging about the school arrests and transitioning towards prison...there is opportunity there I believe mental health reform early in schools should be a norm as a school nurse. It’s shocking to see arrest figures so high in schools...but equally shocking is the violence against teachers which has steady risen over 15 years..:where gun violence in school has declined.

You hit the nail on the head on why I am very pro universal pre k. We have seen school districts that implement it see a reduction in costs per a pupil because we can address social emotional and educational needs earlier and therefore spend less on that when students are older. The school arrests stems IMO from lack of training of a lot of school resource officers (SROs) not being trained on student needs and disabilities and only on discipline. Routine disorders like oppositional defiant disorder are easily perceived as non disorder based attitudes by those in authority. I know personally I have lost my shit when I wanted a student to pick up a paper he crumpled and tossed on the floor when I needed to use a more appropriate technique.

In terms of teacher violence that is a hot button issue in my district and we are not getting the support from the superintendent's office. I think a lot of administrations are fearful of disciplining students for extreme behavior because it counts as negative numbers for a school. This leads to that behavior being perceived as acceptable. They are still teenagers after all.