What about a TRUE GM

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by celts32

They are getting better...anyone who can't see they are getting better is not watching the games and looking at only the record.

As for the GM/scouting department...I think you need to judge a team on how well they do in the later rounds of a draft. Anyone can make a top 10 pick and be right more times than not. You can read Mel Kipers book and pretty much predict the top 10 of a draft with 80% certainty. The fact of the matter is that since Danny & Vinny have been on board the Redskins have found very few gems in the later rounds where true talent evaluaters flex their muscles...perhaps that is why those picks are so undervalued by the team now and handed out like candy. If the skins were finding a Tom Brady or Joe Jacoby or Russ Grimm with those picks every couple of years then the team would start to value them more.

Exactly the reason you need a GM. You can not continue year after year throwing away picks and building through free agency. You can not build a team of chemistry, and cohesion by doing that. Look at the teams competing for playoffs now , and previous winners of super bowls in the past 4 years, they all build through the draft, and MAYBE add 1, or 2 at most, free agents to put them over the top. Not 5 or 6 free agents every year.

[FirstandTen]

I think adding a new GM couldn't hurt. I think what some of us are trying to say here is the personnel decisions have gotten much better sense Gibbs came to town.

[#56fanatic]

I know we all love Joe. And its hard to question a guy who has won as much as he has, and is in the Hall. To say this organization is in any better shape now than a couple of years ago is just not correct. Yes, Joe has brought in a sence of comradory amongst the players, and the team seams to play with more heart, which is a great thing to see. But from an organiztional stand point it still stinks. We have the same people making decisions on players and drafts. Vinny Cerato is a yes man, nothing more. Pepper Rogers, how is he even qualified? other than to say, Yes Dan, thats a great move! Fact is, since 1999-2000 its been the same story year in and year out. If they rated teams off season moves, we would get an A+ on paper. But they are just not panning out on the field. They fielded a disfunctional team, with a bunch of ME first player in 2000,which on paper was crowned Super Bowl Champs before the season started. When Marty came in, that was actually the first time we started looking like we knew what the hell we were doing. He fired Vinny, dropped players that we ME first, forced one into retirement(Deion). Although he was acting as GM which I never agree on. Then, Danny couldn't accept the fact of not being able to do what he did best. Sign big names to huge stupid contracts and fired Marty. The one time we had something going, even after finishing a tough schedule with Tony Banks at QB we finished 8-3 and had a promising future. Then we all know what happened after that. He got another yes man in Spurrier, and brought all his buddies back to make all decisions. Since then we are 7-9, which by the way is our best season in 4 years, and was the team Marty had in place with the exception of a player or two. then 5-11, 6-10, and now probably 6-10 or 7-9. This organization is good at one thing, creating spin. They can spin their way out of alot of things and make us believe next year is the year. we are only a year away from the playoffs or something bigger. Just look around the NFL and tell me what teams are vying for the playoffs every single year. Look at what they have in place, and look at what we have in place. Look at teams on the way up, and look at us. We do not go up, at all. we are the same mediocore team year after year. 1999 we went to playoffs. that was a team that was not built by Dan and yes men, it was cook, Norv and the GM. Since then 8-8,8-8,7-9,5-11,6-10,and no better this year. does that look like an organization in the right direction? or an organization spinning their wheels in mud?

[FirstandTen]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I know we all love Joe. And its hard to question a guy who has won as much as he has, and is in the Hall. To say this organization is in any better shape now than a couple of years ago is just not correct. Yes, Joe has brought in a sence of comradory amongst the players, and the team seams to play with more heart, which is a great thing to see. But from an organiztional stand point it still stinks. We have the same people making decisions on players and drafts. Vinny Cerato is a yes man, nothing more. Pepper Rogers, how is he even qualified? other than to say, Yes Dan, thats a great move! Fact is, since 1999-2000 its been the same story year in and year out. If they rated teams off season moves, we would get an A+ on paper. But they are just not panning out on the field. They fielded a disfunctional team, with a bunch of ME first player in 2000,which on paper was crowned Super Bowl Champs before the season started. When Marty came in, that was actually the first time we started looking like we knew what the hell we were doing. He fired Vinny, dropped players that we ME first, forced one into retirement(Deion). Although he was acting as GM which I never agree on. Then, Danny couldn't accept the fact of not being able to do what he did best. Sign big names to huge stupid contracts and fired Marty. The one time we had something going, even after finishing a tough schedule with Tony Banks at QB we finished 8-3 and had a promising future. Then we all know what happened after that. He got another yes man in Spurrier, and brought all his buddies back to make all decisions. Since then we are 7-9, which by the way is our best season in 4 years, and was the team Marty had in place with the exception of a player or two. then 5-11, 6-10, and now probably 6-10 or 7-9. This organization is good at one thing, creating spin. They can spin their way out of alot of things and make us believe next year is the year. we are only a year away from the playoffs or something bigger. Just look around the NFL and tell me what teams are vying for the playoffs every single year. Look at what they have in place, and look at what we have in place. Look at teams on the way up, and look at us. We do not go up, at all. we are the same mediocore team year after year. 1999 we went to playoffs. that was a team that was not built by Dan and yes men, it was cook, Norv and the GM. Since then 8-8,8-8,7-9,5-11,6-10,and no better this year. does that look like an organization in the right direction? or an organization spinning their wheels in mud?

I thought we were discussing the current management with Gibbs?

[irish]

Originally Posted by FirstandTen

I think adding a new GM couldn't hurt. I think what some of us are trying to say here is the personnel decisions have gotten much better sense Gibbs came to town.

I think the difference is not so much that the personnel decisions are better under Gibbs, I think its more that the decisions being made by Gibbs are being supported by the owner and not over-ruled (remember Jeff George) or circumvented which has allowed Gibbs to assemble the type of team he wants/needs. I just dont think that Marty or OBC had this front office support.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Damn, I wish I was here during this discussion...

Yeah, basically what you guys said. No one is perfect, but like I said, I would think that at least 75% of the moves made have panned out.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

People talked a lot about Casserly being a genius. Tell me this then, why do the Texans suck so bad? You would think that after three seasons of Carr getting pummeled that some genius would have realized by now that the O-line need massive infusions of talent.

[Daseal]

Rumor has it texans will be canning Charlie Casserly who Texans fans are furious at for screwing up their franchise. I think they have a lot of talent that isn't quite refined yet. Anyhow, may be worth looking at. The second Holmgren in Seattle was stripped of his GM duties they started doing much better.

I'd like to see an offensive coordinator come in first, and a GM right behind him. Let Gibbs motivate the players and over-see everything. Player motivation is his forte.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Rumor has it texans will be canning Charlie Casserly who Texans fans are furious at for screwing up their franchise. I think they have a lot of talent that isn't quite refined yet. Anyhow, may be worth looking at. The second Holmgren in Seattle was stripped of his GM duties they started doing much better.

I'd like to see an offensive coordinator come in first, and a GM right behind him. Let Gibbs motivate the players and over-see everything. Player motivation is his forte.

While Casserly had much success in DC, and is an amazing story, he hasn't had much good to talk about in Houston. Hard to say what the porblem is, but the ownership group is a good one. Maybe Casserly don't have IT

[dmek25]

we are getting better.how about these 2 scenararios,c casserly comes back next year as gm,and m martz comes back as offensive coordinator?i for one would love this

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by dmek25

we are getting better.how about these 2 scenararios,c casserly comes back next year as gm,and m martz comes back as offensive coordinator?i for one would love this

I would like to see Martz back here as the OC. I have the utmost respect for most of our coaching staff, but Breux hasn't proved all that much to me.

[MTK]

Ask the Bengals how easy it is to take first rounders, they had high first rounders for a about a decade and managed to F them all up.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Ask the Bengals how easy it is to take first rounders, they had high first rounders for a about a decade and managed to F them all up.

That was the owner who didn't put players around those first rounders. Now look and see what is going on in Cincinatti. Good team, young talent, and an owner who made a pledge to make the team better by handing everything over the coach and GM.

[dmek25]

i think 56fanatic and sally jenkins live together,both share the same negative viewpoints on the skins

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i think 56fanatic and sally jenkins live together,both share the same negative viewpoints on the skins

I read Sally Jenkins article today and felt it was a bit harsh. She obviously has something against Dan Snyder. That being said, I have taken up for this organization until I was blue in the face. Saying what owner goes out and get what ever player you want, he spends the money to win, he cares. Which all of this is true, he does care about his franchise, tremendously. However, until we put people in place with FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE in the front office we will continue to make bad moves and finish every year with these "playoff scenarios" and what ifs. Look at the teams at the top of the NFL. Look at how the team is run. The owner writes the checks, that is it. They have a proven talent evaluator, GM, player scouts and the list goes on. With the exception of a few teams. All of these teams have built teams from the ground up with the draft. Rounds 1 through 7, not using only rounds 1 through 3. and picking up multiple free agents year after year. I dont know why people dont see that. We use to build through the draft, with the help of quality GMs and win. When Dan took over and cleaned house, and made decisions himself it has gotten us a season best record of 8-8. I know people keep thinking about some of the additions made being quality additions, which some might be. But looking at the overall performance since 99, only 6 years there are only 2 or 3 players still on the active roster. constant turnover, coaches and players never wins. All of the teams competing for the playoffs have had pieces added through the draft over a few years and they grow together, then when they hit a turn around, the front office goes out and picks quality players to make the team that much better. We do not do that. They dont believe in having a down year or two to build and let the team grow, its win now and since that concept has taken over we have not won anything. I just wish people would look around and see the successful franchises and see the common thread there. Its not a hard concept to understand.