What about a TRUE GM

[celts32]

They are getting better...anyone who can't see they are getting better is not watching the games and looking at only the record.

As for the GM/scouting department...I think you need to judge a team on how well they do in the later rounds of a draft. Anyone can make a top 10 pick and be right more times than not. You can read Mel Kipers book and pretty much predict the top 10 of a draft with 80% certainty. The fact of the matter is that since Danny & Vinny have been on board the Redskins have found very few gems in the later rounds where true talent evaluaters flex their muscles...perhaps that is why those picks are so undervalued by the team now and handed out like candy. If the skins were finding a Tom Brady or Joe Jacoby or Russ Grimm with those picks every couple of years then the team would start to value them more.

[irish]

Originally Posted by celts32

They are getting better...anyone who can't see they are getting better is not watching the games and looking at only the record.

As for the GM/scouting department...I think you need to judge a team on how well they do in the later rounds of a draft. Anyone can make a top 10 pick and be right more times than not. You can read Mel Kipers book and pretty much predict the top 10 of a draft with 80% certainty. The fact of the matter is that since Danny & Vinny have been on board the Redskins have found very few gems in the later rounds where true talent evaluaters flex their muscles...perhaps that is why those picks are so undervalued by the team now and handed out like candy. If the skins were finding a Tom Brady or Joe Jacoby or Russ Grimm with those picks every couple of years then the team would start to value them more.

Sure Mel Kiper can pick the top 10 in the draft almost exactly in order every year but that does not mean those players end up being superstars or for that matter even servicable pros. A team needs good coaching and good talent evaluators to become great. The Texans have a good talent evaluator but the coaching is bad. The skins have good coaching but the talent evaluators can be improved. A GM would improve that process.

[heybigstar]

The trade for portis was terrible, not only did we lose Champ, who is a far better player than Portis, we gave portis a huge contact for a slightly above average RB.

[Redskins_P]

Originally Posted by heybigstar

The trade for portis was terrible, not only did we lose Champ, who is a far better player than Portis, we gave portis a huge contact for a slightly above average RB.

When will people finally realize that CHAMP DID NOT WANT TO BE HERE!!!!!!! :frusty:

He asked for the trade.

And I wouldn't call Portis slightly above average. He's still young, for what he's accomplished so far in his career, I wouldn't fall him slightly above average.

[steveo395]

Originally Posted by heybigstar

The trade for portis was terrible, not only did we lose Champ, who is a far better player than Portis, we gave portis a huge contact for a slightly above average RB.

There is more to being a running back than just running...he might be an above average runner but he's a great blocker and a pretty good receiver....and its not like the blocking or the playcalling is that good anyway, so its hard to run well.

Everyone keeps talking about the late round picks that gibbs has made. Some of the players are still on the team and might be good, they just haven't had a chance yet. Most late round picks take a few years to get good, they don't made immediate impacts. If they were going to make an immediate impact, they probably wouldn't be late round picks

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by celts32

They are getting better...anyone who can't see they are getting better is not watching the games and looking at only the record.

As for the GM/scouting department...I think you need to judge a team on how well they do in the later rounds of a draft. Anyone can make a top 10 pick and be right more times than not. You can read Mel Kipers book and pretty much predict the top 10 of a draft with 80% certainty. The fact of the matter is that since Danny & Vinny have been on board the Redskins have found very few gems in the later rounds where true talent evaluaters flex their muscles...perhaps that is why those picks are so undervalued by the team now and handed out like candy. If the skins were finding a Tom Brady or Joe Jacoby or Russ Grimm with those picks every couple of years then the team would start to value them more.

Exactly the reason you need a GM. You can not continue year after year throwing away picks and building through free agency. You can not build a team of chemistry, and cohesion by doing that. Look at the teams competing for playoffs now , and previous winners of super bowls in the past 4 years, they all build through the draft, and MAYBE add 1, or 2 at most, free agents to put them over the top. Not 5 or 6 free agents every year.

[FirstandTen]

I think adding a new GM couldn't hurt. I think what some of us are trying to say here is the personnel decisions have gotten much better sense Gibbs came to town.

[#56fanatic]

I know we all love Joe. And its hard to question a guy who has won as much as he has, and is in the Hall. To say this organization is in any better shape now than a couple of years ago is just not correct. Yes, Joe has brought in a sence of comradory amongst the players, and the team seams to play with more heart, which is a great thing to see. But from an organiztional stand point it still stinks. We have the same people making decisions on players and drafts. Vinny Cerato is a yes man, nothing more. Pepper Rogers, how is he even qualified? other than to say, Yes Dan, thats a great move! Fact is, since 1999-2000 its been the same story year in and year out. If they rated teams off season moves, we would get an A+ on paper. But they are just not panning out on the field. They fielded a disfunctional team, with a bunch of ME first player in 2000,which on paper was crowned Super Bowl Champs before the season started. When Marty came in, that was actually the first time we started looking like we knew what the hell we were doing. He fired Vinny, dropped players that we ME first, forced one into retirement(Deion). Although he was acting as GM which I never agree on. Then, Danny couldn't accept the fact of not being able to do what he did best. Sign big names to huge stupid contracts and fired Marty. The one time we had something going, even after finishing a tough schedule with Tony Banks at QB we finished 8-3 and had a promising future. Then we all know what happened after that. He got another yes man in Spurrier, and brought all his buddies back to make all decisions. Since then we are 7-9, which by the way is our best season in 4 years, and was the team Marty had in place with the exception of a player or two. then 5-11, 6-10, and now probably 6-10 or 7-9. This organization is good at one thing, creating spin. They can spin their way out of alot of things and make us believe next year is the year. we are only a year away from the playoffs or something bigger. Just look around the NFL and tell me what teams are vying for the playoffs every single year. Look at what they have in place, and look at what we have in place. Look at teams on the way up, and look at us. We do not go up, at all. we are the same mediocore team year after year. 1999 we went to playoffs. that was a team that was not built by Dan and yes men, it was cook, Norv and the GM. Since then 8-8,8-8,7-9,5-11,6-10,and no better this year. does that look like an organization in the right direction? or an organization spinning their wheels in mud?

[FirstandTen]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I know we all love Joe. And its hard to question a guy who has won as much as he has, and is in the Hall. To say this organization is in any better shape now than a couple of years ago is just not correct. Yes, Joe has brought in a sence of comradory amongst the players, and the team seams to play with more heart, which is a great thing to see. But from an organiztional stand point it still stinks. We have the same people making decisions on players and drafts. Vinny Cerato is a yes man, nothing more. Pepper Rogers, how is he even qualified? other than to say, Yes Dan, thats a great move! Fact is, since 1999-2000 its been the same story year in and year out. If they rated teams off season moves, we would get an A+ on paper. But they are just not panning out on the field. They fielded a disfunctional team, with a bunch of ME first player in 2000,which on paper was crowned Super Bowl Champs before the season started. When Marty came in, that was actually the first time we started looking like we knew what the hell we were doing. He fired Vinny, dropped players that we ME first, forced one into retirement(Deion). Although he was acting as GM which I never agree on. Then, Danny couldn't accept the fact of not being able to do what he did best. Sign big names to huge stupid contracts and fired Marty. The one time we had something going, even after finishing a tough schedule with Tony Banks at QB we finished 8-3 and had a promising future. Then we all know what happened after that. He got another yes man in Spurrier, and brought all his buddies back to make all decisions. Since then we are 7-9, which by the way is our best season in 4 years, and was the team Marty had in place with the exception of a player or two. then 5-11, 6-10, and now probably 6-10 or 7-9. This organization is good at one thing, creating spin. They can spin their way out of alot of things and make us believe next year is the year. we are only a year away from the playoffs or something bigger. Just look around the NFL and tell me what teams are vying for the playoffs every single year. Look at what they have in place, and look at what we have in place. Look at teams on the way up, and look at us. We do not go up, at all. we are the same mediocore team year after year. 1999 we went to playoffs. that was a team that was not built by Dan and yes men, it was cook, Norv and the GM. Since then 8-8,8-8,7-9,5-11,6-10,and no better this year. does that look like an organization in the right direction? or an organization spinning their wheels in mud?

I thought we were discussing the current management with Gibbs?

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by FirstandTen

I thought we were discussing the current management with Gibbs?

I was just bringing to light how the organization as a whole has not improved since Dan and Co. took over. People are always saying how we are improving, but the numbers are just not backing it up. I dont think, after years of mediocrity, we can keep putting the blame on coaches and assistant coaches. No coach,one hall of famer and one future hall of famer (marty), has had any success. I just wanted to point out that until we put a GM that knows football in place and can run this team without interruption we will be the same team year after year. At some point we have to start looking at the top. We have made personel changes, coaching changes, philosphy changes and nothing is working. The only consistant has been the people making the decisions , and the consistant losing seasons.

[irish]

Originally Posted by FirstandTen

I think adding a new GM couldn't hurt. I think what some of us are trying to say here is the personnel decisions have gotten much better sense Gibbs came to town.

I think the difference is not so much that the personnel decisions are better under Gibbs, I think its more that the decisions being made by Gibbs are being supported by the owner and not over-ruled (remember Jeff George) or circumvented which has allowed Gibbs to assemble the type of team he wants/needs. I just dont think that Marty or OBC had this front office support.