Bucs Postgame

[AnonEmouse]

Originally Posted by FrenchSkin

-Followed by an absolute bullshit touchback! Play is dead when Apke controls the ball !

Nope, ball is dead if it is downed at that point. If he carries it into the endzone, deliberately or not, it's a TB. Rule is you cannot advance a muff (failure to secure the ball), only a fumble. Had Apke known the rules, he's have been smart and just stopped inside the 5.

Actually happened to me in a game over here. PR didn't catch it clean and I caught and fell on the ball. Teammates all saying should have gone for the EZ and only the coaches realised I'd been smart enough not to try to advance it. I'd understand amateurs like us not knowing the rules, but a pro with years of college behind him...

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

Nope, ball is dead if it is downed at that point. If he carries it into the endzone, deliberately or not, it's a TB. Rule is you cannot advance a muff (failure to secure the ball), only a fumble. Had Apke known the rules, he's have been smart and just stopped inside the 5.



Actually happened to me in a game over here. PR didn't catch it clean and I caught and fell on the ball. Teammates all saying should have gone for the EZ and only the coaches realised I'd been smart enough not to try to advance it. I'd understand amateurs like us not knowing the rules, but a pro with years of college behind him...

Well NFL rules might differ on this but with NCAA/IFAF rules the ball is dead when controlled by a member of the kicking team.

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[AnonEmouse]

Originally Posted by FrenchSkin

Well NFL rules might differ on this but with NCAA/IFAF rules the ball is dead when controlled by a member of the kicking team.

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They do indeed; if the ball is carried into or rolls into the end zone after being touched by the punting team it's a TB. Had he stopped anywhere before crossing the line it would have been Tampa Bay ball on the 5. His ignorance cost 15 yards.

"In the NFL, a punted ball does not have to enter the end zone for a touchback to occur, though this is often the case. A player on the punting team who attempts to down the ball before it crosses the plane of the goal line must keep both feet outside the goal line."

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

They do indeed; if the ball is carried into or rolls into the end zone after being touched by the punting team it's a TB. Had he stopped anywhere before crossing the line it would have been Tampa Bay ball on the 5. His ignorance cost 15 yards.

"In the NFL, a punted ball does not have to enter the end zone for a touchback to occur, though this is often the case. A player on the punting team who attempts to down the ball before it crosses the plane of the goal line must keep both feet outside the goal line."

No. This rule talks about a player attempting to down the ball near the goal line. Apke did down the ball 9 yard from the goal line, and the ball was dead at that point, what happened after that didn't matter. Touching the ball and downing it are 2 different things.

[MissouriSkin]

Originally Posted by FrenchSkin

No. This rule talks about a player attempting to down the ball near the goal line. Apke did down the ball 9 yard from the goal line, and the ball was dead at that point, what happened after that didn't matter. Touching the ball and downing it are 2 different things.

To to mention that it did hit the TB player and it should have been our ball.

[Number44]

Originally Posted by MissouriSkin

To to mention that it did hit the TB player and it should have been our ball.

Exactly!!!

The ball hit his fanny pack, or whatever that little bag on his back is. Replay clearly showed it. It is a part of his uniform and the refs blew it. WFT ball as soon as we controlled it. We can't advance it, as it is considered a muff. Huge game-changing play blown by the WWE officials.

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by Number44

Exactly!!!

The ball hit his fanny pack, or whatever that little bag on his back is. Replay clearly showed it. It is a part of his uniform and the refs blew it. WFT ball as soon as we controlled it. We can't advance it, as it is considered a muff. Huge game-changing play blown by the WWE officials.

Nah I watched it 20 times and I really don't think it did.

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

They do indeed; if the ball is carried into or rolls into the end zone after being touched by the punting team it's a TB. Had he stopped anywhere before crossing the line it would have been Tampa Bay ball on the 5. His ignorance cost 15 yards.

"In the NFL, a punted ball does not have to enter the end zone for a touchback to occur, though this is often the case. A player on the punting team who attempts to down the ball before it crosses the plane of the goal line must keep both feet outside the goal line."

There you go, took me some time because NFL and NCAA/IFAF rule books are structured differently, but the play is over when the ball is recovered by a member of the kicking team:

"The game clock operator shall stop the game clock (timeout) upon a signal by any official or upon the operator’s own positive knowledge:

b) when the kicking team recovers a scrimmage kick beyond the line of scrimmage;"

And then:

"When the kickers catch or recover a kick beyond the line of scrimmage, the ball is dead at the spot of recovery, even if a member of the receiving team has first touched the ball."

[PorkSkins]

Not an excuse, by the way, but simply reality. Covid really screwed up things for society and this season.

Could you imagine 75K or more fans at last night's game.... It would've given our team (and, particularly, the defense) a huge boost. It can also at times help sway a call or two in your favor.

It may have been the boost in a close game like last night to give us a win.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by PorkSkins

Not an excuse, by the way, but simply reality. Covid really screwed up things for society and this season.

Could you imagine 75K or more fans at last night's game.... It would've given our team (and, particularly, the defense) a huge boost. It can also at times help sway a call or two in your favor.

It may have been the boost in a close game like last night to give us a win.

Well the good thing is, RR and this team have given the fans a reason to be excited, and a reason to buy tickets and attend home games to cheer them on. Should be an exciting year next year if they are able to fill some holes, most importantly the QB position.

[AnonEmouse]

Originally Posted by FrenchSkin

There you go, took me some time because NFL and NCAA/IFAF rule books are structured differently, but the play is over when the ball is recovered by a member of the kicking team:

"The game clock operator shall stop the game clock (timeout) upon a signal by any official or upon the operator’s own positive knowledge:

b) when the kicking team recovers a scrimmage kick beyond the line of scrimmage;"

And then:

"When the kickers catch or recover a kick beyond the line of scrimmage, the ball is dead at the spot of recovery, even if a member of the receiving team has first touched the ball."

No it's not, as Apke carried it into the endzone:

The rulebook also gives a breakdown of when touchbacks can be ruled as seen below. These scenarios can only occur if the ball was sent over the goal line by the offensive or kicking team. A touchback occurs when:

The ball is dead in the opponent’s possession in its end zone
The ball is out of bounds behind the goal line
A kick has not been touched by the receiving team and the ball:
Touches the ground on or behind the receivers goal line
Touches a player on the kicking team who is touching the ball on or behind the receiver’s goal line
Touches a player on the kicking team who has touched the ground on or behind the receiver’s goal line and has not re-established himself in play
Any legal or illegal kick, other than one which scores a field goal, touches the receiver’s goal posts
If the kicking team interferes with the receiver’s ability to catch the ball or call fair catch while they are in their end zone
If a player of the kicking team illegally catches or recovers a scrimmage kick in the field of play, and carries the ball across the goal line, or touches the goal line with any part of his body while in possession of the ball
A touchback is called if any of these scenarios occur. If a team is award a touchback off a kickoff, that team starts with the ball on their 25-yard line. If a touchback occurs not on a kickoff, then the team starts with the ball on their 20-yard line.


It doesn't matter if it touched the returner or not, he should know NOT to advance the ball, especially into the endzone.

[SFREDSKIN]

Heinecken is a bad ass, he played the 4th quarter with a separated AC joint from his endzone dive TD.. Haskins would have sat over a hang nail.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/taylor-...053207856.html

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Heinecken is a bad ass, he played the 4th quarter with a separated AC joint from his endzone dive TD.. Haskins would have sat over a hang nail.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/taylor-...053207856.html

Haskins would have never made the play Heinicke did. He would have thrown an INT into a delayed drop coverage fake blitz by a linebacker.

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

No it's not, as Apke carried it into the endzone:

The rulebook also gives a breakdown of when touchbacks can be ruled as seen below. These scenarios can only occur if the ball was sent over the goal line by the offensive or kicking team. A touchback occurs when:

The ball is dead in the opponent’s possession in its end zone
The ball is out of bounds behind the goal line
A kick has not been touched by the receiving team and the ball:
Touches the ground on or behind the receivers goal line
Touches a player on the kicking team who is touching the ball on or behind the receiver’s goal line
Touches a player on the kicking team who has touched the ground on or behind the receiver’s goal line and has not re-established himself in play
Any legal or illegal kick, other than one which scores a field goal, touches the receiver’s goal posts
If the kicking team interferes with the receiver’s ability to catch the ball or call fair catch while they are in their end zone
If a player of the kicking team illegally catches or recovers a scrimmage kick in the field of play, and carries the ball across the goal line, or touches the goal line with any part of his body while in possession of the ball
A touchback is called if any of these scenarios occur. If a team is award a touchback off a kickoff, that team starts with the ball on their 25-yard line. If a touchback occurs not on a kickoff, then the team starts with the ball on their 20-yard line.


It doesn't matter if it touched the returner or not, he should know NOT to advance the ball, especially into the endzone.

Agree on the last part. Doesn't matter if the ball touches the returner or not, you can't advance the ball either way... But I really don't understand the rule you posted: how can something that happened after the ball is dead impact the play ?

To me, and I remember NBC's rules analyst said so too, the rule you posted is meant to apply to a player of the kicking team trying to down the ball just outside the endzone, if he touches the goal line with his feet just when or right after he catches the ball, then it's a touchback. But when Apke catches the ball at the 9 by rule the ball is dead, anything that happened after that shouldn't count.

Found the rule your example refers to, I don't understand it to be written to apply to this situation at all:

"If a player of the kicking team illegally catches or recovers a scrimmage kick, other than a field-goal attempt from beyond the 20-yard line, and touches the goal line with any part of his body while in possession of the ball, the ball is dead, and the result of the play is a touchback."

It clearly describes a bang bang situation when the ball is caught and at the same time/right after a body part of the player crosses the goal line... otherwise they wouldn't specify "the ball is dead", cuz in Apke's situation the ball was already dead way before he crossed the goal line.

Good example of a badly written rule IMO.

[Skinsfanatic]

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