WFT's Off-Season Thread

[Chico23231]

Leno - Flowers - Roullier- Schreff - Cosmi

Lucus, Schweitzer, Ismel, Charles, Sharpe

Not a bad Oline room

[Chief X_Phackter]

Watch, it's all about a Scherff extension...and not a contract for J Allen.

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

Watch, it's all about a Scherff extension...and not a contract for J Allen.

Oh I wouldn't be opposed to that ! That'd make the tag way more logical !
Allen's extension is more likely though.

Don't you think the timing with Moses is weird ? Like "go seek a trade... 1 ... 2 ...3 ... Too late you're cut !".
Wonder what kind of value we could've gotten back... But is it just because they need the cap now for something else (extension, new addition etc...) or is there something to know about Moses ? Like a story about to come, or some beef with Ron and co ?

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[SFREDSKIN]

Do they qualify for a compensatory pick if a player is cut?

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by FrenchSkin

Oh I wouldn't be opposed to that ! That'd make the tag way more logical !
Allen's extension is more likely though.

Don't you think the timing with Moses is weird ? Like "go seek a trade... 1 ... 2 ...3 ... Too late you're cut !".
Wonder what kind of value we could've gotten back... But is it just because they need the cap now for something else (extension, new addition etc...) or is there something to know about Moses ? Like a story about to come, or some beef with Ron and co ?

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This article contains a bit of speculation, but it actually does make sense.

https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/5/20/...oses-situation

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

This article contains a bit of speculation, but it actually does make sense.



https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/5/20/...oses-situation

GREAT read thanks.

Good point about not needing to clear space in order to extend Allen as the move could actually save some 2021 cap.

If we're going the "another addition" route, KJ Wright and Kwon Alexander are still available, aren't they ?

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[Pervis_Griffith]

How long are you supposed to hang on to a player you announced to the world you were willing to trade, when immediately after you announced this, no one asked you about said player?

More than 3 days?

What does that do?

Better off moving on, and letting that player negotiate his own deal.

Bottom line ... No team was willing to give us a draft pick to pick up MM's contract. Whoever he winds up with won't be paying him the $7.5 million we were set to.


We got younger with this move, and we saved money. A pretty solid combination.

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by Pervis_Griffith

How long are you supposed to hang on to a player you announced to the world you were willing to trade, when immediately after you announced this, no one asked you about said player?

More than 3 days?

What does that do?

Better off moving on, and letting that player negotiate his own deal.

Bottom line ... No team was willing to give us a draft pick to pick up MM's contract. Whoever he winds up with won't be paying him the $7.5 million we were set to.


We got younger with this move, and we saved money. A pretty solid combination.

I'd say if you think you can get some sort of value back, yeah you can wait more than 3 days, what's the urge ?
Not mad about it at all, just wondering if there's something we don't know, because I'm thinking we could've gotten something back (late round pick).

[Scalper]

Morgan Moses - RT - Cut - A

This isn't about hating on Moses the player. He is solid, probably top 10-20 in terms of RTs in league. We have a fortune tied up in interior OL, and for once, more players to resign in coming years than we can probably afford. Moses has been a human penalty machine at times, and has been blown up in pass coverage a fair amount, but none could dispute he is a good player.

Why the A grade then? Moses is no longer in his prime, is due $17M next two years, we are a young rebuilding team. Cutting Moses ultimately means prioritizing money for younger players and trusting to younger players, Cosmi or Charles. We no longer have so few good players that we have the luxury of nostalgically clinging to them all. This is a hard-nosed move, the kind the old Pats made, which ensures LONG TERM success. It is the type of move that good teams have to have the nuts to make. For once we have a FO with nuts. That doesn't mean there won't be a drop off or growing pains this year, but it was still the right move.

[Scalper]

G. Christian - T - A+++

Christian had every chance to step up and earn a starting role, but never did. He never developed as hoped. Time to cut losses.

Our Ts: Leno, Cosmi, Charles, Lucas. Sharpe 5th. We could debate whether Sharpe better than Christian, but other 4 are for sure.

One thing you hope is that Cosmi given chance to win LT position, not moved to RT immediate. We should groom our long-term LT at that position, move to RT only if he fails.

[EdmundDorf]

I think it is a little odd that they cut Moses now if they don't need the money for signing someone. We have depth now but don't know what is going to happen between now and the end of camp in terms of injury, or if another team loses a tackle and is in desperate need before final cuts which would provide some trade interest. If they don't use the cap space that they have gained and one of those two things happens then they are going to look a little stupid.

They don't need cap space to extend Scherff or Allen, but there are a couple of others such as Logan Thomas who would be worth it

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by EdmundDorf

I think it is a little odd that they cut Moses now if they don't need the money for signing someone. We have depth now but don't know what is going to happen between now and the end of camp in terms of injury, or if another team loses a tackle and is in desperate need before final cuts which would provide some trade interest. If they don't use the cap space that they have gained and one of those two things happens then they are going to look a little stupid.

They don't need cap space to extend Scherff or Allen, but there are a couple of others such as Logan Thomas who would be worth it

Long term thinking.
Smart thinking.
Your perspective is very short term and tactical not strategic.
Stupid in today's NFL is not planning for cap long term.
Especially if they have to fork out $30M+ a year for a FA QB (a good one, not FitzAverage).
Save money where you can and use it more efficiently, even if just rolled over next year and used to extend guys or sign better FAs. Keep in mind, moves are about more than just this year or even next. We have some high-priced guys whose salaries are escalating in future years. If we don't want to be next year's dolphins, or the year after, moves like this smart.
Not at all sure I extend Thomas, versus drafting a TE first two rounds and starting him, or one of younger guys. He's a great story. Is he worth $10 a year? Or even $8M. While aging? Not sure.
Thomas could be next year's Moses.

[EdmundDorf]

Originally Posted by Scalper

Long term thinking.
Smart thinking.
Your perspective is very short term and tactical not strategic.
Stupid in today's NFL is not planning for cap long term.
Especially if they have to fork out $30M+ a year for a FA QB (a good one, not FitzAverage).
Save money where you can and use it more efficiently, even if just rolled over next year and used to extend guys or sign better FAs. Keep in mind, moves are about more than just this year or even next. We have some high-priced guys whose salaries are escalating in future years. If we don't want to be next year's dolphins, or the year after, moves like this smart.
Not at all sure I extend Thomas, versus drafting a TE first two rounds and starting him, or one of younger guys. He's a great story. Is he worth $10 a year? Or even $8M. While aging? Not sure.
Thomas could be next year's Moses.

I think you misunderstood my point somewhat. I am not advocating that he not be cut , just that, unless they need the money now for a signing, he is a resource they can keep on the roster until final cuts who may have value if they lose an OL during camp or preseason, or as a trade piece should another team lose a starting tackle before then.

I am all for forward thinking when it comes to managing the cap and keeping the young building blocks, and if they prefer the other options they have at OT then great save cap space when final cuts come. No need to cut him today, doesn't save you a bean compared to cutting him at final roster cuts ( unless he has some odd date in his contract where his salary is guaranteed).

Heard it speculated that he and Ron aren't on the same page which is maybe why Ron got rid of him so suddenly. Maybe the number of tackles coming in upset him, maybe he wanted a guarantee of starting (which would grind Rons gears) or maybe he wanted an extension which was not well received. Who knows

As for Logan Thomas' value, I did not state one. If the coaching staff love him then why not give him a couple more years until Bates and Reyes come though. But the value proposition is one for them to make

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by EdmundDorf

I am all for forward thinking when it comes to managing the cap and keeping the young building blocks, and if they prefer the other options they have at OT then great save cap space when final cuts come. No need to cut him today, doesn't save you a bean compared to cutting him at final roster cuts ( unless he has some odd date in his contract where his salary is guaranteed).

One of the main challenges, before you factor in the COVID farce, of present structure of NFL is stringent rep limitations. You could bring Moses in and have him do nothing, but otherwise you are taking reps from players like Charles and Cosmi that desperately need them to develop. The current CBA favors teams with continuity big time.

I think the FO saw Moses' film and knew he had lost a step, and had decided he was gone no matter what with Leno and Cosmi on roster, because his contract overpaid him relative to his present production level and talent. One reason people love RR is that he is a players coach. Leno said this is why he signed. Releasing Moses early gives him a chance to sign on somewhere else, and is a class move that typifies RR and why players love him. The FO had obviously 1,000% decided Moses was gone, maybe they wanted him to take a pay cut he refused, and it was the right decision. The reps can now go to players competing for starting spots and learning our system, rather than those with one (slow) foot out the door.

[EdmundDorf]

Originally Posted by Scalper

One of the main challenges, before you factor in the COVID farce, of present structure of NFL is stringent rep limitations. You could bring Moses in and have him do nothing, but otherwise you are taking reps from players like Charles and Cosmi that desperately need them to develop. The current CBA favors teams with continuity big time.

I think the FO saw Moses' film and knew he had lost a step, and had decided he was gone no matter what with Leno and Cosmi on roster, because his contract overpaid him relative to his present production level and talent. One reason people love RR is that he is a players coach. Leno said this is why he signed. Releasing Moses early gives him a chance to sign on somewhere else, and is a class move that typifies RR and why players love him. The FO had obviously 1,000% decided Moses was gone, maybe they wanted him to take a pay cut he refused, and it was the right decision. The reps can now go to players competing for starting spots and learning our system, rather than those with one (slow) foot out the door.

A good point, it also occured to me after my statement that if he were injured while they were holding on to him then they would be on the hook for his salary this year, so from that perspective cutting him now rather than later was a better idea