WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

I don't look at the quarterback position any different from other positions when it comes to the draft. I don't want them reaching for LB, WR, etc. in any round if he's not the best player on their board. Same with QB.

QB is different. You maybe reach a little, but not a lot. Often times, it is a choice between a high floor or high ceiling guy. Do you play it safe?

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by Scalper

QB is different. You maybe reach a little, but not a lot. Often times, it is a choice between a high floor or high ceiling guy. Do you play it safe?

I respect that opinion. I'm just saying I don't look at the QB position any differently. A reach is a reach. Drafting a 2nd round talent in the 1st round is dumb.

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

I respect that opinion. I'm just saying I don't look at the QB position any differently. A reach is a reach. Drafting a 2nd round talent in the 1st round is dumb.

I agree in theory, but it may not be that digital. If you have a guy you think is your franchise QB and you have him slotted late first or early second round, and all you have is a mid-round 1st and 2nd, what do you do? Draft the guy you think is a franchise QB 15 slots early, or not get him? Trading back or up ideal, but not always possible. I am a staunch BPA guy, but I think all rules have some exceptions, and a minor reach for a franchise QB may be necessary. This is MUCH different than trading 4+ high picks to move up super high, etc.

We have people seriously discussing trading 4+ 1st and 2nd round picks for a QB. If we spend a single 1st or 2nd and get our franchise QB, we won, even if we reached a bit. What I think ultimately happens is that guys with obvious 3rd or later round grades get drafted 1st round because teams desperate for QB, we should avoid that. Take Mac Jones. To me, though I love the guy, he isn't strong armed enough to take 1st round going pure BPA. I wouldn't trade up for him. But if he is sitting there at #19, which I doubt, you have to ask a hard question. If I really think he is a long term franchise QB, and I have a MLB or CB rated higher, do I reach 20 spots to find a long-term answer at most important position in football? I'm not saying I know, but for a lot of proven GMs, the answer is yes.

[AnonEmouse]

What we have to remember is Snyder had to convince Rivera to come here, and gave him assurances about control to do that. While he can maintain an improvement and a degree of success, Snyder isn't going to rock the boat because he knows Rivera will just walk. He's an established coach, with a rich NFL resume, well respected, wealthy and just got over cancer. He doesn't have any need to take any shit so he's far more likely to walk than give up ground to Snyder. And if Snyder loses Rivera like that, he'll never convince another top coach to come here.

[EdmundDorf]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

What we have to remember is Snyder had to convince Rivera to come here, and gave him assurances about control to do that. While he can maintain an improvement and a degree of success, Snyder isn't going to rock the boat because he knows Rivera will just walk. He's an established coach, with a rich NFL resume, well respected, wealthy and just got over cancer. He doesn't have any need to take any shit so he's far more likely to walk than give up ground to Snyder. And if Snyder loses Rivera like that, he'll never convince another top coach to come here.

Well said, I wish some of the previous coaches had the spine to say "I have control or I quit" , Shanahan for instance...... I would hope Snyder realises that if he screws this up one more time he will never have a successful team, but I won't bet my house on it

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

What we have to remember is Snyder had to convince Rivera to come here, and gave him assurances about control to do that. While he can maintain an improvement and a degree of success, Snyder isn't going to rock the boat because he knows Rivera will just walk. He's an established coach, with a rich NFL resume, well respected, wealthy and just got over cancer. He doesn't have any need to take any shit so he's far more likely to walk than give up ground to Snyder. And if Snyder loses Rivera like that, he'll never convince another top coach to come here.

To add to that, now more than ever, Snyder needs the team to win and for him to NOT be the focus of media. Given all the legal issues and the fight with the team's co-owners, the last thing Snyder wants is the spotlight on him.

And while it is right for us to be cautiously optimistic, there are plenty of moves which would have NEVER happen before, such as:

- Releasing AP
- Moving on from the likes of Eric Schaefer and Kyle Smith
- Getting rid of Haskins

Let's hope this continues.

[MissouriSkin]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

To add to that, now more than ever, Snyder needs the team to win and for him to NOT be the focus of media. Given all the legal issues and the fight with the team's co-owners, the last thing Snyder wants is the spotlight on him.

And while it is right for us to be cautiously optimistic, there are plenty of moves which would have NEVER happen before, such as:

- Releasing AP
- Moving on from the likes of Eric Schaefer and Kyle Smith
- Getting rid of Haskins

Let's hope this continues.

For me, the Stanford move showed Dan was not involved. Once the bidding started, we didn’t up our offer, which means Dan didn’t offer way too much so he could “win”.

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

What we have to remember is Snyder had to convince Rivera to come here, and gave him assurances about control to do that. While he can maintain an improvement and a degree of success, Snyder isn't going to rock the boat because he knows Rivera will just walk. He's an established coach, with a rich NFL resume, well respected, wealthy and just got over cancer. He doesn't have any need to take any shit so he's far more likely to walk than give up ground to Snyder. And if Snyder loses Rivera like that, he'll never convince another top coach to come here.

Yup. And the problem is, to even get RR, he had to cede GM powers that most coaches should never have. EVERY coach given GM powers will begin making short-term decisions at the expense of the long-term as the end of their contract nears because they want to keep their jobs. It is why you segregate the two positions and should have GM over coach in power structure.

[AnonEmouse]

I actually have a feeling RR will outlast DS at WTF...

[skinsfaninok]

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-trey-...h-dakota-state

Nice write up here

[SCRedskinsFan]

Just a random observation regarding the QB position in today’s NFL. For all intents and purposes, a QB that is able to move exceedingly well and run outside the pocket is a must, to the exclusion of all others, like Mac Jones. And quarterbacks in the Russel Wilson mold seem to be much sought and preferred.

In the face of all that, who is the apparent GOAT at that position, who was drafted in the sixth round because of athletic shortcomings? And who just won the Super Bowl as the classic traditional pocket passer he has always been? So despite our excitement about the athleticism of the current crop of candidates, we would be well served that good wheels are not necessarily a reliable predictor of QB success. We would broaden our consideration to those who are tough minded, able to read the defense well, who have a quick release and accuracy even under stress, and who sport a high football IQ. I’m thinking that these qualities are undervalued as we look at QB candidates, and are more likely found in the later rounds of the draft.

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by SCRedskinsFan

Just a random observation regarding the QB position in today’s NFL. For all intents and purposes, a QB that is able to move exceedingly well and run outside the pocket is a must, to the exclusion of all others, like Mac Jones. And quarterbacks in the Russel Wilson mold seem to be much sought and preferred.

In the face of all that, who is the apparent GOAT at that position, who was drafted in the sixth round because of athletic shortcomings? And who just won the Super Bowl as the classic traditional pocket passer he has always been? So despite our excitement about the athleticism of the current crop of candidates, we would be well served that good wheels are not necessarily a reliable predictor of QB success. We would broaden our consideration to those who are tough minded, able to read the defense well, who have a quick release and accuracy even under stress, and who sport a high football IQ. I’m thinking that these qualities are undervalued as we look at QB candidates, and are more likely found in the later rounds of the draft.

Well spoken. Running QBs don't last. Never have, never will. They take bad hits eventually and get hurt, like Mahomes was this year, like Jackson, etc. More importantly, running becomes a substitute for learning to read Ds and be a pocket passer. Good wheels are not only not a good predictor of success, I would say the opposite is true.

Brees, Rodgers, Brady, etc., the guys in the hunt year after year, are traditional pocket passers that run very sparingly. Assuming you don't have a chicken arm, and can at least make all the basic throws, QB is 90% mental.
To me, Montana the GOAT, never cheated, never lost the big game. He could make all the throws but would be first to tell you he wasn't strong armed.

Trey Lance could be a stud, but has NEVER been forced to make pro reads. Assuming he can is a massive projection. Ala Haskins, though I doubt anyone in this year's draft will be as lazy as Haskins and improve so little. Learning to read offenses is NOT some trivial skill. Those advocating Trey Lance and similar guys have learned NOTHING from RGIII and Haskins. NOTHING. Neither could read a basic D. They destroyed it in college making quick simple plays on offenses loaded to gills with stud skill position players. You mitigate the risk of a QB busting by picking one that has already demonstrated ability to run a real pro offense and read Ds. Pocket passers are the players with longevity who lead teams deep into playoffs year after year. Pocket passers are what we should be looking to draft.

I like Mac Jones, and might take him over Lawrence, because of the mental aspects. Probably not, but maybe. I watched some film on both, limited sample size, and all I'm saying is, no way we get Lawrence, but Jones is the type of guy we should be targeting. I seriously doubt he is there at #19 but if he is, I take him in a heartbeat. His personality, work ethic, etc., remind me of Eli Manning, minus the ruinous alcoholism. People forget that Giants won more SBs than any other NFC team, prior to Brady moving to Bucs, over last two decades. With the statue pocket passer.

I think a team like New England will probably move up and take Jones. Trey Lance makes sense in the 2nd round given he has no proven ability to read Ds, but will be gone long before then I think. I love taking a flyer on a guy like Peyton Ramsey in the 3rd, 4th, or later. No brainer in the 4th for a team with no QB, if he's there. People say our OC wants a running QB for his "system" but great coordinators adapt the system to the player.

A VERY important observation about pocket passers, is that you can actually find a good one outside the first round and outside the top-10. You can find a good pocket passer in later rounds and have a solid long-term starter. You can't generally find a guy that can throw and run like a WR in the later rounds.

Mac Jones if he's there at 19, which I doubt he'll be. I think he'll be gone in top-10, and no way he slides by Pats at 15. I'm NOT a huge fan of trading up, but if Jones is sitting there past 10 it becomes interesting. Dallas and Giants are 10-11, both have their QB, but would they help a division rival snipe theirs or rather help Pats? You'd, going by charts, be talking a 2nd and 4th or 5th rounder. So you would get Jones and still have 2 third round picks. I don't love trades like this, but it at least isn't a total mortgaging of future, and I think the price would ultimately be higher because of bidding war QB needy teams, and would probably take a 2nd and 3rd this year minimum. Too high a price methinks.

And sign Trent Williams to 2-year deal. :-) LOL. LOL. LOL. Bruce Allen, the gift that keeps on giving. . .

At a minimum, we need to take a flyer on a pocket passer like Ramsey in 3rd or 4th round.

[AnonEmouse]

While I agree in principle, Brady is almost one of a kind. He's a football genius to the point of often being able to predict exactly what a defence will do pre-snap; he studies much harder than many QB's. When he came out of college the league was still very much built around pocket passers and a run game. With more passing and more athletic DL (Sweat is probably fast enough to play S!), being mobile is essential without those skills and intangibles. Brady can move in and around the pocket to extend a play somewhat, but he's not going to get you 15 yards when your receivers are covered and a big hole opens up. He relies upon getting the ball out fast and not just that, to the guy with the best chance of making the desired yardage. He's great at PA which, with a good enough running game allows him to put defenders out of position, just as much as he's able to do so with his eyes etc.

From what I can see, even Mahomes didn't come out of college with some of those skills. He too is a good study and fast learner, but the SB showed that no natter how athletic you are, you have to have the football brain to make adjustments etc. College QB's with good mobility are sought after because while the coaching plans to bring through those skills, their mobility can get them out of trouble and extend plays.

I bet if Brady had played week 1 after he was drafted he might have been buried and never heard from again. He had a season and 2 games behind Bledsoe and likely wouldn't have started at all that second season had Bledsoe not gone down. And then it took him 5 games to get into his stride. He was given time to learn and mature into the role which he did with aplomb once he got going. It's said Mahomes year behind AS did him the world of good. But NFL teams now don't/won't show that patience with a rookie as a rule so they want a guy that can freelance if needs be while he learns and improves his game.

[skinsfaninok]

https://riggosrag.com/2021/02/18/was...t-quarterback/

I say this too, roll with what we got and draft Trey Lance if we can move up a few spots to get him.

Fields will be long gone by pick 10

[GridIron26]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

https://riggosrag.com/2021/02/18/was...t-quarterback/

I say this too, roll with what we got and draft Trey Lance if we can move up a few spots to get him.

Fields will be long gone by pick 10

Yep.. I have been saying this since day 1 of the offseason, we will roll with Heinicke/Allen/rookie QB or Smith. It's not the ideal option but we have very limited options so we just need to focus on strengthen whole team for the next QB.