Overrated/Underrated

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

2 rings in his first 4 seasons is a hell of a start for Brady. Another ring and the Montana comparisons will really start flying. He's got alot of ball left to go.

sounds like in your opinion Brady was the reason for the Pats going and winning both super bowls, you don't think that the defense had anything to do with Brady getting 2 rings in his first 4 seasons?

BrudLee - "He's also on a team which gives him the chance to make Super Bowl winning kicks - something that 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try."

You are right 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try to kick the GAME WINNING field goal, but IMO there are only a handful of kickers that could do that with all the pressure and Vinatieri is IMO probably the best clutch kicker in the game. If he misses that GAME WINNING kick 2 years ago against the Raiders the Pats do not go on and win the super bowl.

[BrudLee]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

BrudLee - "He's also on a team which gives him the chance to make Super Bowl winning kicks - something that 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try."

You are right 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try to kick the GAME WINNING field goal, but IMO there are only a handful of kickers that could do that with all the pressure and Vinatieri is IMO probably the best clutch kicker in the game. If he misses that GAME WINNING kick 2 years ago against the Raiders the Pats do not go on and win the super bowl.

No doubt 8588, he's in the top three or four in his profession. I just don't think he's the main reason the Pats won those championships, which some previous posts semmed to alude to. The defense, some clutch passing to smart receivers (get out of bounds!!!), and great special teams play were all part of the winning equation.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by BrudLee

No doubt 8588, he's in the top three or four in his profession. I just don't think he's the main reason the Pats won those championships, which some previous posts semmed to alude to. The defense, some clutch passing to smart receivers (get out of bounds!!!), and great special teams play were all part of the winning equation.

You are right it was a combination of special teams and haveing receivers that knew where they were on the field and able to get out of bounds. My point that I am trying to make here is that MVP stands for MOST VALUABLE PLAYER. As for Vinatieri being the main reason the Pats won those super bowls, I will agree that it was not just him. With that IMO Vinatieri should have still ben the MVP of that game, it all came down to his kick in that last seconds of the most important game of the season. If Brady threw the game winning touchdown then yes I could see how he would be considered the MVP.

Look at Ace Ventura: Pet Detective, look at what missing a GAME WINNING field goal can do to a kicker.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

sounds like in your opinion Brady was the reason for the Pats going and winning both super bowls, you don't think that the defense had anything to do with Brady getting 2 rings in his first 4 seasons?

BrudLee - "He's also on a team which gives him the chance to make Super Bowl winning kicks - something that 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try."

You are right 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try to kick the GAME WINNING field goal, but IMO there are only a handful of kickers that could do that with all the pressure and Vinatieri is IMO probably the best clutch kicker in the game. If he misses that GAME WINNING kick 2 years ago against the Raiders the Pats do not go on and win the super bowl.

Sounds like you're not giving any credit at all to Brady. The first SB win I can see your point a bit more, but Brady has definitely proved that he's a big-time QB capable of taking his team all the way. I'm not saying Brady was the only reason for their two SB wins, but he was a big part of it.

Of course defense had something to do with it, but what team doesn't win the SB without a solid team effort across the board, defense, ST, etc.??

I give alot of credit to Vinatieri, he's definitely a clutch kicker, but I just have a hard time giving more credit for two championship seasons to a kicker over a QB.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Sounds like you're not giving any credit at all to Brady. The first SB win I can see your point a bit more, but Brady has definitely proved that he's a big-time QB capable of taking his team all the way. I'm not saying Brady was the only reason for their two SB wins, but he was a big part of it.

Of course defense had something to do with it, but what team doesn't win the SB without a solid team effort across the board, defense, ST, etc.??

I give alot of credit to Vinatieri, he's definitely a clutch kicker, but I just have a hard time giving more credit for two championship seasons to a kicker over a QB.

I think a more telling sign about Brady is this, would new england have won those SB's with Bledsoe running the show? IMO no.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I give alot of credit to Vinatieri, he's definitely a clutch kicker, but I just have a hard time giving more credit for two championship seasons to a kicker over a QB.

Why? Only because he is a kicker?