The 2nd Amendment Thread

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

What does this have to do with the 2nd amendment? Unless you're now arguing that all guns should be outlawed.

The guy is a murderer and should be prosecuted as such.

If it has to be spelled out at this point what a problem guns are I don't know what else to say. And no I'm not saying all guns should be outlawed. No reasonable person is saying that. But how about making it a little more difficult for people to get a gun in the first place?

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by MTK

If it has to be spelled out at this point what a problem guns are I don't know what else to say. And no I'm not saying all guns should be outlawed. No reasonable person is saying that. But how about making it a little more difficult for people to get a gun in the first place?

This was a 65 year old man that probably has had that gun for a long time. Making guns a little more difficult to get was not going to stop this from happening. The 2nd amendment is not relevant to this shooting unless you don't think people should be able to own guns at all.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

This was a 65 year old man that probably has had that gun for a long time. Making guns a little more difficult to get was not going to stop this from happening. The 2nd amendment is not relevant to this shooting unless you don't think people should be able to own guns at all.

this thread has turned into more of an all encompassing gun discussion vs pure 2nd amendment so let's not get bogged down in semantics

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by MTK

this thread has turned into more of an all encompassing gun discussion vs pure 2nd amendment so let's not get bogged down in semantics

I guess I'm just missing the point of your post then. Unless, it's just that guns are bad. And I'd submit guns are not bad, people that shoot people are bad. Guns are the only instrument of violence where the object gets the blame and the people shooting them are a distant 2nd. We injure/kill each other in lots of different ways, we never have these discussions for knives, bats, hands, cars, etc., etc.

Nothing was stopping this shooting besides guns being outlawed or this guy not being a piece of shit.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

I guess I'm just missing the point of your post then. Unless, it's just that guns are bad. And I'd submit guns are not bad, people that shoot people are bad. Guns are the only instrument of violence where the object gets the blame and the people shooting them are a distant 2nd. We injure/kill each other in lots of different ways, we never have these discussions for knives, bats, hands, cars, etc., etc.

Nothing was stopping this shooting besides guns being outlawed or this guy not being a piece of shit.

Simple point is guns are part of the problem. I'll emphasize part of the problem, not the only problem. The US is an outlier when compared to the rest of the world. We have the most guns, we have the most gun violence. It's been shown time and time again that countries with tighter gun control have less gun violence. Gun violence and specifically mass shootings are a uniquely American problem. But what I keep hearing from people like yourself is oh well, nothing would have stopped this latest incident so why bother trying anything.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by MTK

Simple point is guns are part of the problem. I'll emphasize part of the problem, not the only problem. The US is an outlier when compared to the rest of the world. We have the most guns, we have the most gun violence. It's been shown time and time again that countries with tighter gun control have less gun violence. Gun violence and specifically mass shootings are a uniquely American problem. But what I keep hearing from people like yourself is oh well, nothing would have stopped this latest incident so why bother trying anything.

I just think this example is not the right one to use to make the point your trying to make. These type shootings cannot be legislated out of happening, unless the legislation is to ban all guns. This guy is a scumbag that needs to spend the rest of his life in prison, so he cannot shoot anyone else ever again.

In regards to me personally, I have previously stated I'm for raising the age to own guns to 21, background checks, spending on mental healthcare, etc. My dog in the fight isn't about requirements to own a gun, I just care about not banning certain type guns.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

I just think this example is not the right one to use to make the point your trying to make. These type shootings cannot be legislated out of happening, unless the legislation is to ban all guns. This guy is a scumbag that needs to spend the rest of his life in prison, so he cannot shoot anyone else ever again.

In regards to me personally, I have previously stated I'm for raising the age to own guns to 21, background checks, spending on mental healthcare, etc. My dog in the fight isn't about requirements to own a gun, I just care about not banning certain type guns.

I wasn't trying to say these shootings involving kids showing up at the wrong place could have been prevented with gun control. I was just bringing them up in the grand scheme of the gun control debate in general. But who knows, maybe they could have been prevented if we had jumped on gun control reform years ago and aggressively funded mental health related support programs. We'll never know 100%. To me it's just sad that in the US we have a clear health and safety issue and we've prioritized guns and the 2nd amendment over all else.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by MTK

If it has to be spelled out at this point what a problem guns are I don't know what else to say. And no I'm not saying all guns should be outlawed. No reasonable person is saying that. But how about making it a little more difficult for people to get a gun in the first place?

Serious question, if we know illegal guns are used in 70-85% in gun violence, why don’t you support locking up these folks in illegal possession of a firearm?

No more discussion on gun control unless we enforce the laws on the books. No cashless bails for guns or violent crime.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Serious question, if we know illegal guns are used in 70-85% in gun violence, why don’t you support locking up these folks in illegal possession of a firearm?

No more discussion on gun control unless we enforce the laws on the books. No cashless bails for guns or violent crime.

Who said I don't? I'm all for enforcement of existing laws in addition to strengthening them. They need to go hand in hand though and the gun nuts don't want either.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by MTK

Who said I don't? I'm all for enforcement of existing laws in addition to strengthening them. They need to go hand in hand though and the gun nuts don't want either.

Anybody possession of illegal firearms….no cashless bail and federally mandated 2 year prison sentence. Anybody caught committing a crime with a gun, minimum 10 year prison sentence on top of additional charges

If guns are the problem, show me you care

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Anybody possession of illegal firearms….no cashless bail and federally mandated 2 year prison sentence. Anybody caught committing a crime with a gun, minimum 10 year prison sentence on top of additional charges

If guns are the problem, show me you care

I rarely say this, but Chico has a valid point. Firearm crimes are most rampant in urban areas with large populations, and it's predominantly where illegal weapons are used to commit those crimes. Yet voters in urban areas overwhelmingly favor DA's in elections who are not tough on crime.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Anybody possession of illegal firearms….no cashless bail and federally mandated 2 year prison sentence. Anybody caught committing a crime with a gun, minimum 10 year prison sentence on top of additional charges

If guns are the problem, show me you care

So we need to wait until a crime is committed? Until someone dies? How bout we just do a little bit better making sure that they aren’t as accessible as baseball cards? Do you really think that some dipshit criminal is going to have an epiphany about what he is about to do because some dude on the block got a ten year prison sentence?

Im not opposed to your idea at all. Hell give em 20. But the true problem is much deeper than that. On several levels actually but Im not even going to go there. Nah fuck that I am. I’ll simply say besides gun availability there is an extremely deep rooted problem with opportunities for most people in those urban areas. I was never 6 years old walking home from kindergarten and being taught about power, money, and opportunity through crime because as a white kid growing up on a brady bunch block I had other avenues.