Will Saunders Affect Our QB Situation?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by firstdown

We have a hall of fame coach, now we Saunders who has had a top five O in his last five seasons, and other very talented O coaches. I will have no problem with which ever QB they sellect to run our O. For the people who say they will not watch the Skins if Brunell starts we will see how long you last when we are winning games.I just do not understand those types of comment when we have a coaching staff that just about any other team would love to have standing on their sidelines. I'm not a Brunell lover I just feel we have the right people in place to make the best decisions for this team whoever our QB.

Some people just hate Brunell that much I guess. Why I don't know, perhaps they just can't get '04 outta their minds despite him having a Pro Bowl caliber '05 season. Yeah I know, what about the last 3 games? Well, what about looking at the entire season, I know it's hard to think back that far but if you can still remember '04 I'm sure you can handle it.

If someone is seriously not going to watch games if Brunell plays I say fine, just one less fair weather fan we don't need.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Some people just hate Brunell that much I guess. Why I don't know, perhaps they just can't get '04 outta their minds despite him having a Pro Bowl caliber '05 season. Yeah I know, what about the last 3 games? Well, what about looking at the entire season, I know it's hard to think back that far but if you can still remember '04 I'm sure you can handle it.

If someone is seriously not going to watch games if Brunell plays I say fine, just one less fair weather fan we don't need.

Pro bowl caliber 05' season????????????????......................offiss just went rigid all over........a tremor in the "Ramsey force"

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Pro bowl caliber 05' season????????????????......................offiss just went rigid all over........a tremor in the "Ramsey force"

LOL!

[offiss]

PRO BOWL CALIBER SEASON?????

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Some people just hate Brunell that much I guess. Why I don't know, perhaps they just can't get '04 outta their minds despite him having a Pro Bowl caliber '05 season. Yeah I know, what about the last 3 games? Well, what about looking at the entire season, I know it's hard to think back that far but if you can still remember '04 I'm sure you can handle it.

If someone is seriously not going to watch games if Brunell plays I say fine, just one less fair weather fan we don't need.

I woudn't say that lets look at a couple of my posts

http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=8657

A DAY Of Perfection
What a great day...Brunell threw the ball Long and well he played great...Portis ran well... LA played very well.... Even my boy Ramsey got in the game I'm very happy.....
__________________
Run or Pass and Score ..We Want Alot More!!!!

e: Skins fans should hope Ramsey starts and does well for the offseason (merged)
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But look if Mark does play i more than hope he has an All WORLD DAY!!!! I just personally think Ramsey is a better QB...but 1st of all I want the Skins to beat the eagles sweep.... we have nothing but eagles fans and dallas fans at work ..(I live in PA) i already have my broom redy right by the door.... and i am gonna be the biggest asshole to those fans like they were to me for so many years...
__________________
Run or Pass and Score ..We Want Alot More!!!!



I belive I am wishing him well here! Not a hater !!

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

I woudn't say that lets look at a couple of my posts

http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=8657

A DAY Of Perfection
What a great day...Brunell threw the ball Long and well he played great...Portis ran well... LA played very well.... Even my boy Ramsey got in the game I'm very happy.....
__________________
Run or Pass and Score ..We Want Alot More!!!!

e: Skins fans should hope Ramsey starts and does well for the offseason (merged)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But look if Mark does play i more than hope he has an All WORLD DAY!!!! I just personally think Ramsey is a better QB...but 1st of all I want the Skins to beat the eagles sweep.... we have nothing but eagles fans and dallas fans at work ..(I live in PA) i already have my broom redy right by the door.... and i am gonna be the biggest asshole to those fans like they were to me for so many years...
__________________
Run or Pass and Score ..We Want Alot More!!!!



I belive I am wishing him well here! Not a hater !!

RC56, let me ask you a question, and I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from.

Why, exactly, do you feel Patrick is a better QB than Brunell?

[railcon56]

Because at the end of 2004 Ramsey started playing very well... here is a stat from the Giant game that year



Ramsey Rolls: Playing second fiddle to Mark Brunell through the first part of the season, QB Patrick Ramsey rolled the Redskins to his first victory this season as the starter. The 3rd-year pro tossed 3 touchdowns in a 19-for-22, 174-yard day and a blistering 139.2 rating.



I think he opens the offense up more and has a better arm... I think Brunell has limitations there are just throws he can't make but Patrick can.... In the 1st game he looked crisp and was just starting to get the rhythm of the game.... and I feel this was his break out year....







I think he is tough and smart the poor man took a pounding for years and fought tooth and nail...he has kept a positive attitude... Sure Brunell has more experience but this was Patrick’s 2nd year under Gibbs and he had a better grasp of the offense than last year.... But if you have an offense where all you do is throw 10 yard passes sure you will get touchdowns but throwing it down the field opens up so many other things ...Patrick has proven he can do all those ... people are asking for Campbell to get playing time ...well you have to play to learn you can only get so much from practice... he had improved steadily and now he had a fast receiver I feel he could have gotten the ball down field with more consistency than brunell.... that would have given Cooley and screens more room teams wouldn't be able to afford to play us with 8 men in the box cause the the deep pass would have been open... I watched brunell I was at the Raider game and the San Diego Games and there were open people but brunell can't hold the ball like other Qb's till that last minute and make a throw....he just cant take them anymore.... Patrick is more than willing to take a hit for the team and make that throw he is younger bigger and stronger.... Plus I remember when he was pounded he always got up he's tough... after suffering though out all that I felt he deserved playing time to see if he could do it... he's earned at least that When Brunell goes back to throw he doesn’t take a 3,4or 5 step drop I counted about 8 look at the film he runs right out of the pocket…because he cant take a hit anymore. Several times I saw Cooley open if he would have just stopped and thrown a quick pass on like 3rd and 2…. But he had to get way back… and then set on a pass like that it’s a minor flick of the wrist for Ramsey…. So if he never plays we will never know whether he could have made those plays but I feel at least when brunell was hurt he deserved the chance to get in there ….Brunell was obviously hurt and he hurt team in the end by not admitting it…. It’s like the year Brad Johnson took the Bucs to the Superbowl his arm was lively cause he had been hurt most of the year….an older Qb’s arm just wears down… Brunell may have looked good earlier in the season but by the end of the year it looked pretty weak….I tried to remember 1 pass from week 7 on where brunell hit a pass over the middle over 10 yards ….that’s a part of our offense and was one less option the defense has to cover…But that’s my opinion why I think Patrick is better… but I always wanted Brunell to play great and win. …….... I just think Gibbs got to wrapped up in Brunell…. Not saying there was any coaching conspiracy or anything crazy like that…..

[offiss]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

Because at the end of 2004 Ramsey started playing very well... here is a stat from the Giant game that year



Ramsey Rolls: Playing second fiddle to Mark Brunell through the first part of the season, QB Patrick Ramsey rolled the Redskins to his first victory this season as the starter. The 3rd-year pro tossed 3 touchdowns in a 19-for-22, 174-yard day and a blistering 139.2 rating.



I think he opens the offense up more and has a better arm... I think Brunell has limitations there are just throws he can't make but Patrick can.... In the 1st game he looked crisp and was just starting to get the rhythm of the game.... and I feel this was his break out year....







I think he is tough and smart the poor man took a pounding for years and fought tooth and nail...he has kept a positive attitude... Sure Brunell has more experience but this was Patrick’s 2nd year under Gibbs and he had a better grasp of the offense than last year.... But if you have an offense where all you do is throw 10 yard passes sure you will get touchdowns but throwing it down the field opens up so many other things ...Patrick has proven he can do all those ... people are asking for Campbell to get playing time ...well you have to play to learn you can only get so much from practice... he had improved steadily and now he had a fast receiver I feel he could have gotten the ball down field with more consistently than brunell.... that would have given Cooley and screens more room teams would be able to afford to play us with 8 men in the box cause we they the deep pass would have been open... I watched brunell I was at the Raider game and the San Diego Games and there were open people but brunell can't hold the ball like other Qb's till that last minute and make a throw....he just cant take them anymore.... Patrick is more than willing to take a hit for the team and make that throw he is younger bigger and stronger.... Plus I remember when he was pounded he always got up he's tough... after suffering though out all that I felt he deserved playing time to see if he could do it... he's earned at least that When Brunell goes back to throw he doesn’t take a 3,4or 5 step drop I counted about 8 look at the film he runs right out of the pocket…because he cant take a hit anymore. Several times I saw Cooley open if he would have just stopped and thrown a quick pass on like 3rd and 2…. But he had to get way back… and then set on a pass like that it’s a minor flick of the wrist for Ramsey…. So if he never plays we will never know whether he could have made those plays but I feel at least when brunell was hurt he deserved the chance to get in there ….Brunell was obviously hurt and he hurt team in the end by not admitting it…. It’s like the year Brad Johnson took the Bucs to the Superbowl his arm was lively cause he had been hurt most of the year….an older Qb’s arm just wears down… Brunell may have looked good earlier in the season but by the end of the year it looked pretty weak….I tried to remember 1 pass from week 7 on where brunell hit a pass over the middle over 10 yards ….that’s a part of our offense and was one less option the defense has to cover…But that’s my opinion why I think Patrick is better… but I always wanted Brunell to play great and win. …….... I just think Gibbs got to wrapped up in Brunell…. Not saying there was any coaching conspiracy or anything crazy like that…..

Exellent explaination Rail, that is a very good breakdown of the game that the average fan doesn't really percieve.

And I am not saying that Brunell backers are average, I don't want to start another war here.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

Because at the end of 2004 Ramsey started playing very well [...] I think he opens the offense up more and has a better arm... I think Brunell has limitations there are just throws he can't make but Patrick can.... In the 1st game he looked crisp and was just starting to get the rhythm of the game.... and I feel this was his break out year....




I think he is tough and smart the poor man took a pounding for years and fought tooth and nail...he has kept a positive attitude... Sure Brunell has more experience but this was Patrick’s 2nd year under Gibbs and he had a better grasp of the offense than last year.... But if you have an offense where all you do is throw 10 yard passes sure you will get touchdowns but throwing it down the field opens up so many other things ...Patrick has proven he can do all those ... [] ...well you have to play to learn you can only get so much from practice... he had improved steadily and now he had a fast receiver I feel he could have gotten the ball down field with more consistently than brunell.... that would have given Cooley and screens more room teams would be able to afford to play us with 8 men in the box cause we they the deep pass would have been open... I watched brunell I was at the Raider game and the San Diego Games and there were open people but brunell can't hold the ball like other Qb's till that last minute and make a throw....he just cant take them anymore.... Patrick is more than willing to take a hit for the team and make that throw he is younger bigger and stronger.... Plus I remember when he was pounded he always got up he's tough... after suffering though out all that I felt he deserved playing time to see if he could do it... he's earned at least that When Brunell goes back to throw he doesn’t take a 3,4or 5 step drop I counted about 8 look at the film he runs right out of the pocket…because he cant take a hit anymore. Several times I saw Cooley open if he would have just stopped and thrown a quick pass on like 3rd and 2…. But he had to get way back… and then set on a pass like that it’s a minor flick of the wrist for Ramsey…. So if he never plays we will never know whether he could have made those plays but I feel at least when brunell was hurt he deserved the chance to get in there ….Brunell was obviously hurt and he hurt team in the end by not admitting it…. It’s like the year Brad Johnson took the Bucs to the Superbowl his arm was lively cause he had been hurt most of the year….an older Qb’s arm just wears down… Brunell may have looked good earlier in the season but by the end of the year it looked pretty weak….I tried to remember 1 pass from week 7 on where brunell hit a pass over the middle over 10 yards ….that’s a part of our offense and was one less option the defense has to cover…But that’s my opinion why I think Patrick is better… but I always wanted Brunell to play great and win. …….... I just think Gibbs got to wrapped up in Brunell…. Not saying there was any coaching conspiracy or anything crazy like that…..

See, I agree with a lot of these statements. Up until you get to "I just think Gibbs got to wrapped up in Brunell". That's the crux of our disagreement.

Obviously, everyone is entitled to an opinion - but my point is and has been: Gibbs is smarter than us, Gibbs is dedicated to winning, and, if Gibbs believes Brunnell is the best QB for the job, then I trust that decision.

I guess I think anything (and everything) you can/have observed has been meticulously broken down by Gibbs and staff in film sessions. In reviewing that information, if Gibbs believed that PR was the better man for the job, I believe Gibbs would not have hesitated to put Ramsey in.

Also, in fairness, you have deliniated the areas in which Ramsey is better than Brunnell, mostly (and I agree with these): arm strength, toughness and youth. In addition, I would include leadership - b/c it seemed clear to me that his teammates always liked and supported him. [I would add that, although Ramsey is undoubtedly a tough cookie, Brunnelll is no shrinking violet. He took some vicious hits and came back for more and NEVER pointed any fingers at anyone but himself.]

With that said, and to really rid yourself of the "Brunnell hater" label - can you tell me anything you think Brunnell is better at than Ramsey? Or at the least indicate that you recognize some of Ramsey's shortcomings? Seriously, looking at his body of work, do you think Ramsey has not demonstrated any limitations?

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

See, I agree with a lot of these statements. Up until you get to "I just think Gibbs got to wrapped up in Brunell". That's the crux of our disagreement.

Obviously, everyone is entitled to an opinion - but my point is and has been: Gibbs is smarter than us, Gibbs is dedicated to winning, and, if Gibbs believes Brunnell is the best QB for the job, then I trust that decision.

I guess I think anything (and everything) you can/have observed has been meticulously broken down by Gibbs and staff in film sessions. In reviewing that information, if Gibbs believed that PR was the better man for the job, I believe Gibbs would not have hesitated to put Ramsey in.

Also, in fairness, you have deliniated the areas in which Ramsey is better than Brunnell, mostly (and I agree with these): arm strength, toughness and youth. In addition, I would include leadership - b/c it seemed clear to me that his teammates always liked and supported him. [I would add that, although Ramsey is undoubtedly a tough cookie, Brunnelll is no shrinking violet. He took some vicious hits and came back for more and NEVER pointed any fingers at anyone but himself.]

With that said, and to really rid yourself of the "Brunnell hater" label - can you tell me anything you think Brunnell is better at than Ramsey? Or at the least indicate that you recognize some of Ramsey's shortcomings? Seriously, looking at his body of work, do you think Ramsey has not demonstrated any limitations?

I think Brunell is mobile and is smart about knowing where he is on the field for one I think that brunell recognizes when to get rid of the ball and throws a better touch pass.... he's likable i like his personality and i do respect him playing injured cause i do know when i was playing i didn't want to come out of that game unless i was dead..... he always knows where the sticks are......I think he is a good Qb i really do i just get mad and i think it's unfair when people just write Ramsey off and down him.....I'm just an very loyal person and i remember ramsey's tough years... But I can respect that Loyal side of Gibbs too ...

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

I think Brunell is mobile and is smart about knowing where he is on the field for one I think that brunell recognizes when to get rid of the ball and throws a better touch pass.... he's likable i like his personality and i do respect him playing injured cause i do know when i was playing i didn't want to come out of that game unless i was dead..... he always knows where the sticks are......I think he is a good Qb i really do i just get mad and i think it's unfair when people just write Ramsey off and down him.....I'm just an very loyal person and i remember ramsey's tough years... But I can respect that Loyal side of Gibbs too ...

Fair enough. Thanks.