Patrick Ramsey Vs Philip Rivers

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I brought up the point, before, however that he was worth a first rounder when we got Brunell. Gibbs knew then who he wanted to run his O, we should have traded him then.

I know, hindsight's 20/20, but I thought we should have traded him then too.

There were rumors of the Dolphins offering a 1st, but who really knows how solid those rumors were.

Gibbs likes depth at QB and I think at that time he wasn't ready to completely give up on Ramsey.

[dmek25]

ill represent you 12th,and no ,im not a lawyer.but i did stay at a holiday inn express last night

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by ST21

Really, I've got this from ESPN draft board, and at the time in question was his accuracy, but Gibbs has put that to rest.....he was more than a project on some people board he was a head of Rodgers......: .

Admittedly, I am going from memory. I do remember the general take by several talking heads that Campbell was a project in that I doubt you could find anyone who said he would be ready to start right away or even in his second year. If I am mistaken, so be it.

[Dana87]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Dana87, there's nothing emotional about it, Ramsey is not worth a first round pick and that's not an emotional opinion, that's an opinion shared by nearly every NFL GM/scout/decision maker, it's just reality.

If you think Ramsey is worth a first round pick, then you my friend is the one with the emotional attachment.

Matty, I guess your not understanding my point. Once again I do not feel that Ramsey is worth a 1st round pick. Nor do I think Rivers is. But if someone is going to give you $10 for a dollar bill. It is a fair assumption that they should give me $10 for my dollar bill. After all your money is worth the same as mine. Hopfully that clears up my point a little.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Dana87

Matty, I guess your not understanding my point. Once again I do not feel that Ramsey is worth a 1st round pick. Nor do I think Rivers is. But if someone is going to give you $10 for a dollar bill. It is a fair assumption that they should give me $10 for my dollar bill. After all your money is worth the same as mine. Hopfully that clears up my point a little.

That depends Dana87, a dollar bill from 1922 might not be worth as much as a dollar from, let's say 2004......

I'm just kidding, sweetie, I get your point

[redskinsskickazz]

I think the other significant difference between ramsey and rivers trade value would be the situation of the starting quarterbacks for each team. rivers is behind a young quarterback who proved himself capable of performing at a pro bowl level after he (rivers) was drafted. and ramsey is behind an aging quarterback who performed extremely poorly his first year and was still not able to beat him out. having said that because of brees'es health status i believe if the chargers still want to trade rivers (which is unlikely) his value will be lower. The point im trying to make is i believe that trade value has alot to do with what you're current coaches think of you.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Dana87

Matty, I guess your not understanding my point. Once again I do not feel that Ramsey is worth a 1st round pick. Nor do I think Rivers is. But if someone is going to give you $10 for a dollar bill. It is a fair assumption that they should give me $10 for my dollar bill. After all your money is worth the same as mine. Hopfully that clears up my point a little.

I understand your point.

In a perfect world you would get a 1st rounder in return for Ramsey since that's what it cost us, but obviously this isn't a perfect world.

What did we get for Rod Gardner? A 6th rounder?

[ST21]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Admittedly, I am going from memory. I do remember the general take by several talking heads that Campbell was a project in that I doubt you could find anyone who said he would be ready to start right away or even in his second year. If I am mistaken, so be it.

To me doesn't seem Smith or Rodgers were ready either.....so with being said, Jason Campbell could be the steal in the late rounds

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by ST21

To me doesn't seem Smith or Rodgers were ready either.....so with being said, Jason Campbell could be the steal in the late rounds

Whether he's a steal or not really remains to be seen. Either way because of what the Redskins gave up for him, in terms of draft picks, I think many are reserving judgement on this for at least three years.

[ST21]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Whether he's a steal or not really remains to be seen. Either way because of what the Redskins gave up for him, in terms of draft picks, I think many are reserving judgement on this for at least three years.

If the Redskins are willing to gamble on him.......then I say we made the right choice, once he get out there and start winning, I want here any of this doubt anymore

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I understand your point.

In a perfect world you would get a 1st rounder in return for Ramsey since that's what it cost us, but obviously this isn't a perfect world.

What did we get for Rod Gardner? A 6th rounder?

What's important to remember is that Ramsey was the last pick in round one. So even a 1% drop in his value puts his value at a #2 pick even in a perfect world. Also since Patrick was the last pick in round #1 it means that every other team in the league passed on him in round #1. So the league as a whole never even believed he was a 1st round pick at any point in his life. If the skins get anything more than a #3 they robbed somebody...and a #4 is more likely his value.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by celts32

What's important to remember is that Ramsey was the last pick in round one. So even a 1% drop in his value puts his value at a #2 pick even in a perfect world. Also since Patrick was the last pick in round #1 it means that every other team in the league passed on him in round #1. So the league as a whole never even believed he was a 1st round pick at any point in his life. If the skins get anything more than a #3 they robbed somebody...and a #4 is more likely his value.

Interesting, what round was Montana picked? How bout Rypien, how far did Marino drop, what about Brady? Not that Patrick will ever be any of those QB's, all though I believe he is far better than Rypien, the point is Ramsey showed serious potential under SS, basically everyone was saying if this guy gets some protection he's going to be real good, the only thing that has hurt him since is that a hall of fame coach has benched him, so everyone believes something is wrong with him.

Bottom line, only time will deciede this debate. But remember Brady was on the bench behind a lowsey QB in Bledsoe, but because he was a top pick and had a big name he played, guess what? The coach who many are considering one of the great coaches of all time, and who many believe has passed Parcells by on the elite coaching ranks in history WAS WRONG! Brady was a nobody, a 6th rd pick, and if it wasen't for an injury he may still be on that bench who knows? But we do know this, Brady is already an all time great and he was sitting behind the likes of Bledsoe!

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by celts32

What's important to remember is that Ramsey was the last pick in round one. So even a 1% drop in his value puts his value at a #2 pick even in a perfect world. Also since Patrick was the last pick in round #1 it means that every other team in the league passed on him in round #1. So the league as a whole never even believed he was a 1st round pick at any point in his life. If the skins get anything more than a #3 they robbed somebody...and a #4 is more likely his value.

I agree totally. The tendency for us as fans is to inflate the value of our players. (See the "Fergy" discussion for an example of another team's fans falling victim) If we get a 3rd rounder for Ramsey we should make for the hills of Mexico. Yaahhhh!

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by offiss

Interesting, what round was Montana picked? How bout Rypien, how far did Marino drop, what about Brady? Not that Patrick will ever be any of those QB's, all though I believe he is far better than Rypien, the point is Ramsey showed serious potential under SS, basically everyone was saying if this guy gets some protection he's going to be real good, the only thing that has hurt him since is that a hall of fame coach has benched him, so everyone believes something is wrong with him.

Bottom line, only time will deciede this debate. But remember Brady was on the bench behind a lowsey QB in Bledsoe, but because he was a top pick and had a big name he played, guess what? The coach who many are considering one of the great coaches of all time, and who many believe has passed Parcells by on the elite coaching ranks in history WAS WRONG! Brady was a nobody, a 6th rd pick, and if it wasen't for an injury he may still be on that bench who knows? But we do know this, Brady is already an all time great and he was sitting behind the likes of Bledsoe!

The difference with all the QB's you mentioned is that, once they got their opportunity, they didn't sit back down. Ramsey has had ample opportunity and has shown strengths and weaknesses but has never exhiibited enough of the first make any coach say "DAMN - this kid's got 'IT'." This is not a slam on Ramsey and it is not saying he will never be that kind of QB, just that in his 4 years here he hasn't ever gone beyond potential greatness. Marino (who was a late round 1st draft pick) came in and never looked back, Montana & Brady the same.

As for trade value, are you seriously suggesting that we could get anything beyond a 3rd for Ramsey?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

The difference with all the QB's you mentioned is that, once they got their opportunity, they didn't sit back down. Ramsey has had ample opportunity and has shown strengths and weaknesses but has never exhiibited enough of the first make any coach say "DAMN - this kid's got 'IT'." This is not a slam on Ramsey and it is not saying he will never be that kind of QB, just that in his 4 years here he hasn't ever gone beyond potential greatness. Marino (who was a late round 1st draft pick) came in and never looked back, Montana & Brady the same.

As for trade value, are you seriously suggesting that we could get anything beyond a 3rd for Ramsey?

Defiently! If AJ Feeley can bring back a second so can Patrick.

I do believe those other QB's were put into much better circustances when they had their shot.

I wouldn't consider 1 quarter a fair assesment of Ramsey, We all know he outplayed Brunell the previous season, so after 1 quarter this past season he can't get the job done? Whoever thinks that's a fair opportunity can, I just hope you never run into that type of judgement in your life.