Brunell is Bad

[Daseal]

Paintrain, read my post and I explain how. Ramsey would have given us a better TOP, more passing yards, more TDs, and more INTs. However he'd have far fewer fumbles than Brunell. Ramsey did more in slightly over one quarter in the first game than Brunell was able to pull out in the remainder of it. This was a good defense he was playing very well against.

I think the total amount of turnovers would have been similar, but Ramsey would have had more, yet we would have scored more and had more players worked into the mix. Easily the best season since 1999, big deal, this was "Easily the best season" for every Redskin since 1999, we made the playoffs. Little of that, in my opinion, had to do with the great play of Mark Brunell.

I guess I'm wrong about his contract, I thought the restructure last year made him even easier to cut this year. I could definitely be wrong here.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Paintrain, read my post and I explain how. Ramsey would have given us a better TOP, more passing yards, more TDs, and more INTs. However he'd have far fewer fumbles than Brunell. Ramsey did more in slightly over one quarter in the first game than Brunell was able to pull out in the remainder of it. This was a good defense he was playing very well against.

I think the total amount of turnovers would have been similar, but Ramsey would have had more, yet we would have scored more and had more players worked into the mix. Easily the best season since 1999, big deal, this was "Easily the best season" for every Redskin since 1999, we made the playoffs. Little of that, in my opinion, had to do with the great play of Mark Brunell.

I guess I'm wrong about his contract, I thought the restructure last year made him even easier to cut this year. I could definitely be wrong here.

I read your post, but I didn't see any explanation that despite an increase in turnovers that would lead to an increase in TD, TOP and passing yards. By increased INT doesn't that inherently lead to a reduction in TOP and passing yards? Not to mention the possibility of some of those increased TD leading to INT returned for TD or at least into the red zone?

I'm clearly on record as saying that the Redskins are better with Ramsey not under center.. I believe he is what he has shown, flashes of brilliance, great physical tools, very inconsistent, holds onto the ball too long, makes poor decisions with the football.. In short, Gus Frerotte II.. No he didn't, yeah I went there.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Sean Taylor is God

I'm not going to dazzle you with numbers or deep theory. I just want to see where this goes. I have been concerned with the aquisition of a #2 WR when somone posed that it is Brunell's fault not Patten's. He is absolutely right. I have never been sold on him but what little offensive success we saw last year had little to do with his play and more to do with individual great plays, good team strategy, and a great offensive line. Our most successful pass plays were quick screen's to Moss and Cooley, and passes in the flat to Sellars. This requires nothing from the QB but delivery and every 3rd QB in the league can give you delivery. Our success on these passes were due to great blocks and moss's speed. At no point did Brunell demonstrate an ability to read coverages and complete passes down the middle of the field. The long ball consisted of him throwing it as far as his weak arm could muster and have speedy Moss outrun coverage. He rarely even attempts down the field passes and when he does they make me sad. Honestly, I tear up. His willingness to throw the ball away is something for review, and he has no problem punting the ball away. I often feel that he does not want the ball and would prefer that the other team's offense had it so the defense would be responsible. We have four arguable top-5 at their position lineman who provided remarkable protection last year. Barring injuries they should be better next year, but hopefully the guy responsible for getting the ball out of the pocket will be calm, assertive, and not mark brunell.


PS- I was just watching a recording of Gibbs at the combine. I love him. And I love you.

4 top 5 linemen? who would those be? not dockery or rabach... and jansen and samuels are alright, but neither is top 5. (samuels is althletic enough to be in the top 5, but he's too inconsistant). thomas i would say is undoubtedly top 5, but 1/5 is a lot less than 4/5.

brunell threw deep fine. see dallas, see 49ers, etc... moss was in the top 3 in 40+ yard passes. most of his screen stuff went for 10-20 yards, not 40+.

brunell does have the running qb menality where he looks 1,2 and tosses it or runs or dump it off where (good) pocket passers tend to get an extra read in. he's actually good at what he does, but lossing patten really hurt and at the end of the year he was obviously banged up and playing very poorly. that' a far cry from saying he's just outright bad though. The protection wasn't remarkable though, it was average to slightly above average... which would be appaling if we actually did have 4/5 Olinemen that were top5 at their positions.

[dmek25]

offiss, i think that brunell gives the redskins the best chance at winning,BUT im with you thinking that p ramsey has never gotten a fair shake with the skins since coach gibbs has come back.its probably better for all parties involved that he move on.im not really sure why the skins braintrust thinks about ramsey the way they do,but they have been constant in their thinking so he might as well go somewhere he has a chance to play

[That Guy]

if he performs well in 2006 and has a starting role then thats the downside of not signing him now. campbell will still be cheap and brunell being cut would still save money. If the skins can't afford a good QB (which would be cheap the first 3 years) then they've got bigger problems.

[Huddle]

Originally Posted by That Guy

if he performs well in 2006 and has a starting role then thats the downside of not signing him now.

Are you saying that you think the Skins and Ramsey could come to terms on an extension now?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Huddle

Are you saying that you think the Skins and Ramsey could come to terms on an extension now?

no, but in a different life, thats alwayss the downside to not getting extensions done early, you pay more. the upside, of course, if that if they suck, its easier to kick them out the door.

you were discussing the possibility of keeping him, i was following that with the hypothetical that brunell would be easy to toss (cap wise) and campbell would be cheap enough that taking on a good QB contract would still be possible... SO if ramsey did well, the other QBs' contracts would be a non factor is whether you keep him or not.

as far as reality, he's gone regardless of cap sense, cause gibbs likes brunell and campbell, and its impossible to like 3 QBs and keep them all happy (and he's obviously made his choice).

[skinsguy]

Yeh, yet another Brunell/Ramsey thread! Gee, haven't seen that lately! :/

[jordanz301]

first of all some1 shoulda closed this thread when it started......2nd u guys are saying that when a qb relys on his arm and tries to squeeze to make big plays is bad? the only way to make a big play like that is to take the gamble of throwing it up.......LOOK AT FAVRE he threw way more ints than td's i think most in his career.......would u take brunell b/c he doesnt go for the big play and doesnt throw ints, or would u take favre whos known for big plays in tight situations but throws ints too? ok then.....bottom line is ramsey didnt get his fair shot and thats bs! i respect brunell for taking us to the playoffs, but u act like ramseys an idiot and hasnt grown and wont grow anymore..........when he played releif for brunells old broken ass he did great he threw a thouchdown pass to santana and he "managed the game" i think better than brunelll he looked fine to me.......if we lose ramsey im really gnna miss him we havent seen ANYTHING in campbell absolutley nothing, he had great offensive supporting cast in aubrn, he threw a couple good balls in a mediocre ass defense in the pre-season......i say stick with ramsey and make big plays

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by jordanz301

first of all some1 shoulda closed this thread when it started......2nd u guys are saying that when a qb relys on his arm and tries to squeeze to make big plays is bad? the only way to make a big play like that is to take the gamble of throwing it up.......LOOK AT FAVRE he threw way more ints than td's i think most in his career.......would u take brunell b/c he doesnt go for the big play and doesnt throw ints, or would u take favre whos known for big plays in tight situations but throws ints too? ok then.....bottom line is ramsey didnt get his fair shot and thats bs! i respect brunell for taking us to the playoffs, but u act like ramseys an idiot and hasnt grown and wont grow anymore..........when he played releif for brunells old broken ass he did great he threw a thouchdown pass to santana and he "managed the game" i think better than brunelll he looked fine to me.......if we lose ramsey im really gnna miss him we havent seen ANYTHING in campbell absolutley nothing, he had great offensive supporting cast in aubrn, he threw a couple good balls in a mediocre ass defense in the pre-season......i say stick with ramsey and make big plays

Very good

[Dana87]

Originally Posted by Sean Taylor is God

I'm not going to dazzle you with numbers or deep theory. I just want to see where this goes. I have been concerned with the aquisition of a #2 WR when somone posed that it is Brunell's fault not Patten's. He is absolutely right. I have never been sold on him but what little offensive success we saw last year had little to do with his play and more to do with individual great plays, good team strategy, and a great offensive line. Our most successful pass plays were quick screen's to Moss and Cooley, and passes in the flat to Sellars. This requires nothing from the QB but delivery and every 3rd QB in the league can give you delivery. Our success on these passes were due to great blocks and moss's speed. At no point did Brunell demonstrate an ability to read coverages and complete passes down the middle of the field. The long ball consisted of him throwing it as far as his weak arm could muster and have speedy Moss outrun coverage. He rarely even attempts down the field passes and when he does they make me sad. Honestly, I tear up. His willingness to throw the ball away is something for review, and he has no problem punting the ball away. I often feel that he does not want the ball and would prefer that the other team's offense had it so the defense would be responsible. We have four arguable top-5 at their position lineman who provided remarkable protection last year. Barring injuries they should be better next year, but hopefully the guy responsible for getting the ball out of the pocket will be calm, assertive, and not mark brunell.


PS- I was just watching a recording of Gibbs at the combine. I love him. And I love you.

I find your entire post lacking any real knowledge of what the QB position is all about. While I will concede that Brunell is not Payton Manning, I will say this he made the most of what he was given to work with. I don't know if you go to the games or watch on TV, but when your at the game you can see if guys are running wide open and the QB is not getting him the ball. As someone that was at almost all the home games this year and even a couple of the away games that was not the case. I am sure you are a very big Redskins fan but your opinion that big plays in the passing game happen in spite of Brunell rather than because of him is just foolish. I realize bashing Brunell has become the "In thing" to do on a lot of these fan sites, but to make the statements you've made is ridiculous.

[Sean Taylor is God]

Originally Posted by Dana87

I find your entire post lacking any real knowledge of what the QB position is all about. While I will concede that Brunell is not Payton Manning, I will say this he made the most of what he was given to work with. I don't know if you go to the games or watch on TV, but when your at the game you can see if guys are running wide open and the QB is not getting him the ball. As someone that was at almost all the home games this year and even a couple of the away games that was not the case. I am sure you are a very big Redskins fan but your opinion that big plays in the passing game happen in spite of Brunell rather than because of him is just foolish. I realize bashing Brunell has become the "In thing" to do on a lot of these fan sites, but to make the statements you've made is ridiculous.

Why don't you explain to me what the QB position is all about?

This is my first day actually posting on one of these sites so I am not joining any bandwagon. How are my claims ridiculous? Great you go to the games, so do I. And without santana moss there is no deep threat because Brunell can barely get it down there. You say he made the most of what he was given to work with. The 4th ranked RB, a line with top 5 people at each position except for LG. Moss. Cooley. Dream coaching staff and solid team concept. Shhhh! I don't want to hear from you people any more. He has a tremendous amount of talent around him and he underacheived this year. Period.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Sean Taylor is God

Why don't you explain to me what the QB position is all about?

This is my first day actually posting on one of these sites so I am not joining any bandwagon. How are my claims ridiculous? Great you go to the games, so do I. And without santana moss there is no deep threat because Brunell can barely get it down there. You say he made the most of what he was given to work with. The 4th ranked RB, a line with top 5 people at each position except for LG. Moss. Cooley. Dream coaching staff and solid team concept. Shhhh! I don't want to hear from you people any more. He has a tremendous amount of talent around him and he underacheived this year. Period.

you don't get 40+ yard pass plays with a noodle arm. its not george or farve, but its not as bad as you seem to think.

and again, propagating the rumour that we have top 5 offensive linemen at any position besides RG is a vicious vicious lie.


and then you decide to go with the i'm right causes i said so so shut up line :P that's really a great way to sell your opinion.

[Sean Taylor is God]

Originally Posted by That Guy

you don't get 40+ yard pass plays with a noodle arm. its not george or farve, but its not as bad as you seem to think.

and again, propagating the rumour that we have top 5 offensive linemen at any position besides RG is a vicious vicious lie.


and then you decide to go with the i'm right causes i said so so shut up line :P that's really a great way to sell your opinion.

I can throw an NFL football 40 yds. So can a bunch of people on this message board. Samuels is a top 5 LT, Jansen?, Rabach, and you think randy thomas is the only good one? Brunell has a offensive line, that I might ad is run by one of the best line coaches of all time, Joe Bugel.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Sean Taylor is God

I can throw an NFL football 40 yds. So can a bunch of people on this message board. Samuels is a top 5 LT, Jansen?, Rabach, and you think randy thomas is the only good one? Brunell has a offensive line, that I might ad is run by one of the best line coaches of all time, Joe Bugel.

Our OL gave up 35 sacks last year, not really a great number for a top unit as you say.

The OL is still a work in progress.