Brunell is Bad

[Daseal]

I've never felt comfortable with Brunell behind center. Never liked the way we acquired him and have a constant feeling of impending doom when he drops back and doesnt hand off to Portis. However, I will be the first to admit he made some spectacular plays this season. Especially in Dallas, and every now and then he'd throw a ball perfectly into coverage that made you say "wow." Even with that, I don't feel that's enough to keep him here and I really thought Ramsey could have done a much better job than Brunell this season. While he'll definitely turn the ball over more, he'll also put up a lot more yards and spread the ball around a lot more than Brunell.

I may be wrong in this, but I think we save a lot of money cutting Brunell, I'd feel much more confident cutting Brunell and keeping a cheap Ramsey to compete with Campbell for the starting job.

Brunell's biggest downfall is when he gets at all hurt, he starts to make Ryan Leaf look like a good pickup. He won't pull himself out, Gibbs won't pull him out, and all he does is hurt the game. One play, in particular, made me nervous about Brunell last year. I think we can all remember Cooley trotting, wide open, along the back of the endzone. While Brunell stared at him the whole time before finally throwing the ball what seemed like hours later. During this time a defensive player locked onto Brunells eyes and was pretty close to Cooley by the time he caught it. After this he said he just had to make sure he was open. Granted he made that one, but how many potential plays did he miss.

I simply don't feel confident with Brunell behind center, while he had few interceptions, like an above poster said, his fumbles were pretty bad. At least Ramsey throws INT's 40 yards up field near the receiver.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Daseal

One play, in particular, made me nervous about Brunell last year. I think we can all remember Cooley trotting, wide open, along the back of the endzone. While Brunell stared at him the whole time before finally throwing the ball what seemed like hours later.

If you're talking about the 2nd Dallas game that was actually a good play on Brunell's part I thought, he simply waited to make sure Cooley was open and that he had a good throwing angle.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I've never felt comfortable with Brunell behind center. Never liked the way we acquired him and have a constant feeling of impending doom when he drops back and doesnt hand off to Portis. However, I will be the first to admit he made some spectacular plays this season. Especially in Dallas, and every now and then he'd throw a ball perfectly into coverage that made you say "wow." Even with that, I don't feel that's enough to keep him here and I really thought Ramsey could have done a much better job than Brunell this season. While he'll definitely turn the ball over more, he'll also put up a lot more yards and spread the ball around a lot more than Brunell.

I may be wrong in this, but I think we save a lot of money cutting Brunell, I'd feel much more confident cutting Brunell and keeping a cheap Ramsey to compete with Campbell for the starting job.

Brunell's biggest downfall is when he gets at all hurt, he starts to make Ryan Leaf look like a good pickup. He won't pull himself out, Gibbs won't pull him out, and all he does is hurt the game. One play, in particular, made me nervous about Brunell last year. I think we can all remember Cooley trotting, wide open, along the back of the endzone. While Brunell stared at him the whole time before finally throwing the ball what seemed like hours later. During this time a defensive player locked onto Brunells eyes and was pretty close to Cooley by the time he caught it. After this he said he just had to make sure he was open. Granted he made that one, but how many potential plays did he miss.

I simply don't feel confident with Brunell behind center, while he had few interceptions, like an above poster said, his fumbles were pretty bad. At least Ramsey throws INT's 40 yards up field near the receiver.

Agreed!

I also find it funny that the prevailing thought is that Ramsey won't continue to grow and get better as he gets more comfortable in Gibbs offense.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I've never felt comfortable with Brunell behind center. Never liked the way we acquired him and have a constant feeling of impending doom when he drops back and doesnt hand off to Portis. However, I will be the first to admit he made some spectacular plays this season. Especially in Dallas, and every now and then he'd throw a ball perfectly into coverage that made you say "wow." Even with that, I don't feel that's enough to keep him here and I really thought Ramsey could have done a much better job than Brunell this season. While he'll definitely turn the ball over more, he'll also put up a lot more yards and spread the ball around a lot more than Brunell.

I may be wrong in this, but I think we save a lot of money cutting Brunell, I'd feel much more confident cutting Brunell and keeping a cheap Ramsey to compete with Campbell for the starting job.

Brunell's biggest downfall is when he gets at all hurt, he starts to make Ryan Leaf look like a good pickup. He won't pull himself out, Gibbs won't pull him out, and all he does is hurt the game. One play, in particular, made me nervous about Brunell last year. I think we can all remember Cooley trotting, wide open, along the back of the endzone. While Brunell stared at him the whole time before finally throwing the ball what seemed like hours later. During this time a defensive player locked onto Brunells eyes and was pretty close to Cooley by the time he caught it. After this he said he just had to make sure he was open. Granted he made that one, but how many potential plays did he miss.

I simply don't feel confident with Brunell behind center, while he had few interceptions, like an above poster said, his fumbles were pretty bad. At least Ramsey throws INT's 40 yards up field near the receiver.

Couple of points of contention.. First, cutting Brunell would acutally cost $300K more than keeping him.. Brunell had his best season in years and easily the best season for a Redskins QB since Brad Johnson in 1999 and Ramsey could have done better? How much better are you looking for? You admitted that Ramsey would probably turn the ball over more, how is that an improvement? Brunell certainly isn't the picture of youth or ideal health but I feel 200% better going into the season with him as the starter than I would Ramsey..

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Couple of points of contention.. First, cutting Brunell would acutally cost $300K more than keeping him.. Brunell had his best season in years and easily the best season for a Redskins QB since Brad Johnson in 1999 and Ramsey could have done better? How much better are you looking for? You admitted that Ramsey would probably turn the ball over more, how is that an improvement? Brunell certainly isn't the picture of youth or ideal health but I feel 200% better going into the season with him as the starter than I would Ramsey..

Come on man whats a few turn overs every game. Who needs to play field position and who cares that we toss a few to the other guys in the red zone. We can make all that up on a few long passes. Gibbs is just blind to all of Ramsey's tallent and is not going to look like a fool for picking up Brunell. Thats his guy!

[offiss]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Come on man whats a few turn overs every game. Who needs to play field position and who cares that we toss a few to the other guys in the red zone. We can make all that up on a few long passes. Gibbs is just blind to all of Ramsey's tallent and is not going to look like a fool for picking up Brunell. Thats his guy!

You act as if Brunell doesn't turn the ball over? He turned the ball over at basically the same clip as Ramsey, and yes his were very costly because we lost 2 games in 2004 because of defensive TD's off of Brunell turnovers, so to make out Ramsey as some kind of TO machine is fine if you want to admit Brunell is with him step for step, and that's without the offensive output.

Is there any possiblity that Gibbs could maybe be wrong on this matter? At the very least even if he's right about Ramsey don't you think he could possibly be wrong about Brunell? I know if I gave up what Gibbs gave up for Brunell I would defietly feel an obligation to make that work, Gibbs had to make an evaluation on Ramsey based soley on film under SS as if any QB could have survived in that offense, and he gave up the farm for Brunell, that is a tough pill to swallow if your wrong on a major decision like that.

It just seemed to me that Gibbs is scared to death to allow Ramsey any playing time, I just don't understand why? He showed Gibbs in 2004 enough to be named the starter, yet Gibbs would rather put Brunell on the field in a wheel chair than give Ramsey an opportunity, something just doesn't add up? Can anyone disagree that a healthy Ramsey is better than a hobbled Brunell? We all saw how Brunell plays when hurt, if you don't disagree with that question than you will have to agree Gibbs was wrong in playing a player in Brunell who wasen't able to perform properly in our offense. We are all human even the best can make a mistake it happens all the time, maybe he did, and maybe he didn't, but to specualte that is not a bad thing.

[GoSkins!]

Originally Posted by offiss

It just seemed to me that Gibbs is scared to death to allow Ramsey any playing time, I just don't understand why? He showed Gibbs in 2004 enough to be named the starter, yet Gibbs would rather put Brunell on the field in a wheel chair than give Ramsey an opportunity, something just doesn't add up? Can anyone disagree that a healthy Ramsey is better than a hobbled Brunell? We all saw how Brunell plays when hurt, if you don't disagree with that question than you will have to agree Gibbs was wrong in playing a player in Brunell who wasen't able to perform properly in our offense. We are all human even the best can make a mistake it happens all the time, maybe he did, and maybe he didn't, but to specualte that is not a bad thing.

I'll agree with you about Brunell playing hurt. He did look bad and I thought we would have been better served to play Ramsey. That said, we won those games and it is hard to fault a win.

The basic thing that scares Gibbs about Ramsey is his lack of mobility and his last second decision making. I think that both of those things would get better with experience but Gibbs went to Campbell. My problem is not so much that Gibbs went with Brunell because Brunell had the experience to help Gibbs through his own transition back to offensive guru. It's that he gave up on Ramsey before the offense as a whole (coaches too) started to click and yes, Gibbs should have pulled Brunell earlier a couple of times this year so that Ramsey could get more time (San Fran, Dallas-2, Eagles-2).

It also probably scared Gibbs to death that Ramsey couldn't move well and Williams probably had the defense all over him through training camp. You see that and then realize you have to face the Cowboys and Eagles it might make you a little apprehensive also. I know that after the Chicago game all I could think was "Ramsey is going to get killed playing Dallas" once they see the way Chicago rattled him into giving up the ball.

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I've never felt comfortable with Brunell behind center. Never liked the way we acquired him and have a constant feeling of impending doom when he drops back and doesnt hand off to Portis. However, I will be the first to admit he made some spectacular plays this season. Especially in Dallas, and every now and then he'd throw a ball perfectly into coverage that made you say "wow." Even with that, I don't feel that's enough to keep him here and I really thought Ramsey could have done a much better job than Brunell this season. While he'll definitely turn the ball over more, he'll also put up a lot more yards and spread the ball around a lot more than Brunell.

I may be wrong in this, but I think we save a lot of money cutting Brunell, I'd feel much more confident cutting Brunell and keeping a cheap Ramsey to compete with Campbell for the starting job.

Brunell's biggest downfall is when he gets at all hurt, he starts to make Ryan Leaf look like a good pickup. He won't pull himself out, Gibbs won't pull him out, and all he does is hurt the game. One play, in particular, made me nervous about Brunell last year. I think we can all remember Cooley trotting, wide open, along the back of the endzone. While Brunell stared at him the whole time before finally throwing the ball what seemed like hours later. During this time a defensive player locked onto Brunells eyes and was pretty close to Cooley by the time he caught it. After this he said he just had to make sure he was open. Granted he made that one, but how many potential plays did he miss.

I simply don't feel confident with Brunell behind center, while he had few interceptions, like an above poster said, his fumbles were pretty bad. At least Ramsey throws INT's 40 yards up field near the receiver.

I know what you mean I was never on his bandwagon he never impressed me i knew the fall would come... anyone can throw an 5 yard pass