Brunell is Bad

[Dana87]

Originally Posted by Sean Taylor is God

I'm not going to dazzle you with numbers or deep theory. I just want to see where this goes. I have been concerned with the aquisition of a #2 WR when somone posed that it is Brunell's fault not Patten's. He is absolutely right. I have never been sold on him but what little offensive success we saw last year had little to do with his play and more to do with individual great plays, good team strategy, and a great offensive line. Our most successful pass plays were quick screen's to Moss and Cooley, and passes in the flat to Sellars. This requires nothing from the QB but delivery and every 3rd QB in the league can give you delivery. Our success on these passes were due to great blocks and moss's speed. At no point did Brunell demonstrate an ability to read coverages and complete passes down the middle of the field. The long ball consisted of him throwing it as far as his weak arm could muster and have speedy Moss outrun coverage. He rarely even attempts down the field passes and when he does they make me sad. Honestly, I tear up. His willingness to throw the ball away is something for review, and he has no problem punting the ball away. I often feel that he does not want the ball and would prefer that the other team's offense had it so the defense would be responsible. We have four arguable top-5 at their position lineman who provided remarkable protection last year. Barring injuries they should be better next year, but hopefully the guy responsible for getting the ball out of the pocket will be calm, assertive, and not mark brunell.


PS- I was just watching a recording of Gibbs at the combine. I love him. And I love you.

I find your entire post lacking any real knowledge of what the QB position is all about. While I will concede that Brunell is not Payton Manning, I will say this he made the most of what he was given to work with. I don't know if you go to the games or watch on TV, but when your at the game you can see if guys are running wide open and the QB is not getting him the ball. As someone that was at almost all the home games this year and even a couple of the away games that was not the case. I am sure you are a very big Redskins fan but your opinion that big plays in the passing game happen in spite of Brunell rather than because of him is just foolish. I realize bashing Brunell has become the "In thing" to do on a lot of these fan sites, but to make the statements you've made is ridiculous.

[Sean Taylor is God]

Originally Posted by Dana87

I find your entire post lacking any real knowledge of what the QB position is all about. While I will concede that Brunell is not Payton Manning, I will say this he made the most of what he was given to work with. I don't know if you go to the games or watch on TV, but when your at the game you can see if guys are running wide open and the QB is not getting him the ball. As someone that was at almost all the home games this year and even a couple of the away games that was not the case. I am sure you are a very big Redskins fan but your opinion that big plays in the passing game happen in spite of Brunell rather than because of him is just foolish. I realize bashing Brunell has become the "In thing" to do on a lot of these fan sites, but to make the statements you've made is ridiculous.

Why don't you explain to me what the QB position is all about?

This is my first day actually posting on one of these sites so I am not joining any bandwagon. How are my claims ridiculous? Great you go to the games, so do I. And without santana moss there is no deep threat because Brunell can barely get it down there. You say he made the most of what he was given to work with. The 4th ranked RB, a line with top 5 people at each position except for LG. Moss. Cooley. Dream coaching staff and solid team concept. Shhhh! I don't want to hear from you people any more. He has a tremendous amount of talent around him and he underacheived this year. Period.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Sean Taylor is God

Why don't you explain to me what the QB position is all about?

This is my first day actually posting on one of these sites so I am not joining any bandwagon. How are my claims ridiculous? Great you go to the games, so do I. And without santana moss there is no deep threat because Brunell can barely get it down there. You say he made the most of what he was given to work with. The 4th ranked RB, a line with top 5 people at each position except for LG. Moss. Cooley. Dream coaching staff and solid team concept. Shhhh! I don't want to hear from you people any more. He has a tremendous amount of talent around him and he underacheived this year. Period.

you don't get 40+ yard pass plays with a noodle arm. its not george or farve, but its not as bad as you seem to think.

and again, propagating the rumour that we have top 5 offensive linemen at any position besides RG is a vicious vicious lie.


and then you decide to go with the i'm right causes i said so so shut up line :P that's really a great way to sell your opinion.

[Sean Taylor is God]

Originally Posted by That Guy

you don't get 40+ yard pass plays with a noodle arm. its not george or farve, but its not as bad as you seem to think.

and again, propagating the rumour that we have top 5 offensive linemen at any position besides RG is a vicious vicious lie.


and then you decide to go with the i'm right causes i said so so shut up line :P that's really a great way to sell your opinion.

I can throw an NFL football 40 yds. So can a bunch of people on this message board. Samuels is a top 5 LT, Jansen?, Rabach, and you think randy thomas is the only good one? Brunell has a offensive line, that I might ad is run by one of the best line coaches of all time, Joe Bugel.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Sean Taylor is God

I can throw an NFL football 40 yds. So can a bunch of people on this message board. Samuels is a top 5 LT, Jansen?, Rabach, and you think randy thomas is the only good one? Brunell has a offensive line, that I might ad is run by one of the best line coaches of all time, Joe Bugel.

Our OL gave up 35 sacks last year, not really a great number for a top unit as you say.

The OL is still a work in progress.

[Sean Taylor is God]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Our OL gave up 35 sacks last year, not really a great number for a top unit as you say.

The OL is still a work in progress.

Actually, you are proving my point. We had an excellent OL but Brunell's indeciciveness and lack of awareness were the cause of those sacks. A lineman can only be expected to block for so long.

[Sean Taylor is God]

I really can't believe that many of you disagree that Mark Brunell had an excellent supporting cast. It boggles the mind.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Sean Taylor is God

Actually, you are proving my point. We had an excellent OL but Brunell's indeciciveness and lack of awareness were the cause of those sacks. A lineman can only be expected to block for so long.

you think brunell is indecisive yet you want ramsey in there? once patten left the supporting cast wasn't as great anymore. he had the best numbers of his career (and its been a good career), so i don't get what the knock is (besides him playing terribly when injured and fading down the stretch). Brunells pocket awareness wasn't one of his weaknesses, it was one of his stonger points (knowing when to run etc).

he's a mobile guy and was willing to throw the ball away, he avoided more sacks than he caused. you know the skins run max protect a lot right? that means a lot of 1 and 2 man routes where you either have to wait for a receiver to get open or throw it away.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Sean Taylor is God

Actually, you are proving my point. We had an excellent OL but Brunell's indeciciveness and lack of awareness were the cause of those sacks. A lineman can only be expected to block for so long.

LOL spin it any way you want I guess.

That's what the Brunell haters will do... spin it any way to take credit away from the guy.

It actually sounds like you are describing Ramsey with use of the words indecisive and lack of awareness.

Brunell did exactly what was asked of him, he threw the ball away when something wasn't there and he didn't force his throws and cause INT's.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Sean Taylor is God

I can throw an NFL football 40 yds. So can a bunch of people on this message board. Samuels is a top 5 LT, Jansen?, Rabach, and you think randy thomas is the only good one? Brunell has a offensive line, that I might ad is run by one of the best line coaches of all time, Joe Bugel.

do you watch other teams games regularly? rabach is average, not near top 5. he just looks great cause raymer may very well have been the worst starting center in 2004. Samuels has top 5 talent, but he's wildly inconsistant. Just cause bugle is coaching them doesn't automatically make them superstars. I didn't say they weren't good, but only thomas is head and shoulders with the league's best, and after reviewing some video, jansen may be as well :P

at LT: jones, ogden, pace, roaf, McKinnie and you could argue light, thomas, glenn and possibly clifton or the guy from the titans... so top 10-12 somewhere, but not top 5.

RT: there's a legit arguement for jansen here, everybody is pretty close. gallery will be better in a year or two and runyan is better, but gross, mckenzie and anderson are all around the same level.

at RG: shields, posibly rivera and then there's no one else... both those guys are 33 too, so thomas is top 3 without much question.

c: Kruetz, mawae, birk, nalen, weigmann, bentley, saturday, flanagan, newberry, possibly meester... he'd be in the average class there... otherwise why would the ravens let him go after he started 15 games in one season for them? they had a guy (that was on IR i believe) who they liked more.

and at LG we're probably mid 20s, there's ample room to upgrade there (spencer will be available, 350+ lbs (heaviest at combine) and ran a 5.28... dockery was 347 and ran a 5.58, so bigger and much more athletic with great drill work).

[Sean Taylor is God]

Originally Posted by That Guy

do you watch other teams games regularly? rabach is average, not near top 5. he just looks great cause raymer may very well have been the worst starting center in 2004. Samuels has top 5 talent, but he's wildly inconsistant. Just cause bugle is coaching them doesn't automatically make them superstars. I didn't say they weren't good, but only thomas is head and shoulders with the league's best, and after reviewing some video, jansen may be as well :P

at LT: jones, ogden, pace, roaf, McKinnie and you could argue light, thomas, glenn and possibly clifton or the guy from the titans... so top 10-12 somewhere, but not top 5.

RT: there's a legit arguement for jansen here, everybody is pretty close. gallery will be better in a year or two and runyan is better, but gross, mckenzie and anderson are all around the same level.

at RG: shields, posibly rivera and then there's no one else... both those guys are 33 too, so thomas is top 3 without much question.

c: Kruetz, mawae, birk, nalen, weigmann, bentley, saturday, flanagan, newberry, possibly meester... he'd be in the average class there... otherwise why would the ravens let him go after he started 15 games in one season for them? they had a guy (that was on IR i believe) who they liked more.

and at LG we're probably mid 20s, there's ample room to upgrade there (spencer will be available, 250+ lbs and ran a 5.28... dockery was 347 and ran a 5.58, so bigger and much more athletic with great drill work).

i like the way you have outlined the positions and it makes me realize how subjective OL positions can be. The only statistic's are pancake blocks and sacks allowed and those are not always good measures. perhaps you are right about rabach but i thought he did a great job all year. as for samuels, he had one bad year two years ago. he is better than mckinnie, light, clifton and i think is definitely top five. he made it to the pro-bowl.