Who starts at QB?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NFLeurope

I apologize in advance to anyone this post might annoy or if this momentarily brings back to life...the old ass tired Ramsey-Brunell debate.

but let me just say that if Cambell is truly gonna remain our number 3 then i dont know wtf they brought in todd collins for.

It is my personal belief that Ramsey given the weapons we now have...could...(and i think and have thought for a long time) should be the guy to lead us deep into the playoffs. I just really wish he had gotten a shot here.

But i feel that every single thing that has been done with Ramsey has been done completely backwards... Like even now, regarding his impending departure from the skins...the skins have now signed a 3rd QB...making it painfully obvious around the league that Ramsey will not be here next year.

This sends a message to potential trade partners that they can offer next to nothing or even nothing at all for ramsey...because they now believe we will just release him soon anyway. So what ever happend to getting fair value for the kid.

i personally believe he is better than Brunell (though i understand and of course respect people who disagree with me on that point). However, i dont think it is far fetched to assert that he is probably better than Jason Cambell at this point. And certainly better than freaking Todd Collins...

So all in all, i guess as a final mini tribute to Ramsey...i just wanted to say one last time that i really liked and believed in the kid...and i really wish we would keep our 3 QB's from last year...and actually allow Ramsey to compete with Brunell for the starting job next season. I truly believe he could lead this new and improved team to a fantastic season, and an exciting playoff chase...

Ok, sorry once again to those who didnt want to have to read that...but thats just my two cents...and i guess if you dont appreciate reading about ramsey...well you can take comfort in the fact that these "silly" arguments wont be around for very much longer as i imagine ramsey will be gone in the coming days.

If everyone in the league saw what you might see in Ramsey he would be gone by now. He is a low price pick up for another team and they are not going after him. I thought that a team by now might have picked up Ramsey just to bring in a QB that could compete for the starting job and if not the starter a solid back up. Maybe other teams see what Gibbs see in Ramsey and are not willing to take the chance on him. He will find a new team but I think it will be as a back up for the first year atleast.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by firstdown

If everyone in the league saw what you might see in Ramsey he would be gone by now. He is a low price pick up for another team and they are not going after him. I thought that a team by now might have picked up Ramsey just to bring in a QB that could compete for the starting job and if not the starter a solid back up. Maybe other teams see what Gibbs see in Ramsey and are not willing to take the chance on him. He will find a new team but I think it will be as a back up for the first year atleast.

some teams (like cinncy) HAVE gone after him, but he's refused to visit them.

[#56fanatic]

We have waited way to long to deal Ramsey. Jets were offering a 3rd or so for him last year, maybe even higher I honestly dont remember. The fact everyone in the league knew after the 1st half of the 1st game that Ramsey was going to be else where at the start of next season has dropped his trade value dramatically. Teams know the skins are going to drop him, no matter what happens. All this who-ha about waiting to see what happens was a load of crap. they wanted teams to offer something in regards of players or draft picks. Fact is, they know we are releasing him, why give away picks when we can get him on FA market and keep the picks. Ramseys Market will pick up when he is released in the next few days. I think they are really crapping on him right now, especially the way he has handled himself the last two years. Never saying anything bad about the team, supporting Brunell and cheering him on. I saw him repeatedly be the first one on the field to congratulate Brunell after thowing a TD pass. I hope Ramsey goes on to become a very good QB in this league. He has the arm,brains, and we all saw the kid take a pounding and kept getting up, so we know his toughness isn't a question. GOOD LUCK PATRICK!

[WillH]

One thing I think has to be said about Brunell's inability to create an offensive production at the end of last season is that it wasn't simply due to his injuries. At the end of last season Mark had noone to throw the ball to. Moss was double teamed, Patten was on IR, Jacobs and Thrash were simply absymal, and short passes to Cooley and Portis couldn't give us the downfeild threat necessary to get the db's on their heels and to keep frequent blitzes from coming. I think that it is very possible that Brunell in the same condition he ended this past season, could have enough options now with the addition of Randle El and Lloyd, and a healthy Patten in rotation, (And also Saunders' throroughly productive offenssive system) to put up enough points to win in the playoffs, especially with an increaingly efficient Williams defense keeping them on the feild. At this point Jason Campbell hasn't proved he can perform in the NFL. So if I were to put money on whether Brunell or Campbell have a better chance to win us a superbowl, Id put it all on Brunell. Last year with no other downfeild threat then moss, was able to pass for just as many or more TD's then he ever did in Jacksonville. I dont think we should discount him simply because he showed signs of wear at the end of the season. Yeah Gibb's got Campbel for the Redskins future, but the team is Brunells until he proves to be more competant. I for one wouldn't feel comfortable with a second year QB at the helm of the offense. And for those who are inevitably going to mention Rothlisberger, you cannot base your argument for Campbells ability on another players success. So until the season I guess we'll have to wait, but for now Im sold on Brunell.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

We have waited way to long to deal Ramsey.

I know in hindsight, the redskins should have dealt him a long time ago - but you can't live by hindsight, we don't have the power to go back in time. We can't really look at it like that, if we did then you can make the argument that the redskins shouldn't have really drafted him if they knew that he wasn't really going to have a chance. But they didn't really know that. You can only decide and plan things on what you know and what you feel. I'm sure gibbs didn't know that he was planning to pull out Ramsey before the first game was through, but he went with his gut and look how that turned out. And with Ramsey, I personally can't back a player that doesn't get that stamp of approval from gibbs. I couldn't argue with his success of qb decisions, which includes Brunell.

The best thing to do at this point is - keep Ramsey and hope the market for him heats up. The redskins may be able to keep him until the rookies sign because that cap space would have to be reserved for them anyways.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I know in hindsight, the redskins should have dealt him a long time ago - but you can't live by hindsight, we don't have the power to go back in time. We can't really look at it like that, if we did then you can make the argument that the redskins shouldn't have really drafted him if they knew that he wasn't really going to have a chance. But they didn't really know that. You can only decide and plan things on what you know and what you feel. I'm sure gibbs didn't know that he was planning to pull out Ramsey before the first game was through, but he went with his gut and look how that turned out. And with Ramsey, I personally can't back a player that doesn't get that stamp of approval from gibbs. I couldn't argue with his success of qb decisions, which includes Brunell.

The best thing to do at this point is - keep Ramsey and hope the market for him heats up. The redskins may be able to keep him until the rookies sign because that cap space would have to be reserved for them anyways.

Gibbs knew Ramsey was not his guy when he got here. The signing of Brunell, the drafting of Campbell. That pretty much sums it up. I know we can go back in time, (unless my experiment works, in which I am going to be really, really rich and buy the skins from Danny). That was a decision that should have been made earlier, that is all I am saying. The writing was on the wall when he signed Brunell and drafted Campbell. We could have gotten a much higher pick, hell a pick at all since now we get dick!!

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

Gibbs knew Ramsey was not his guy when he got here. The signing of Brunell, the drafting of Campbell. That pretty much sums it up. I know we can go back in time, (unless my experiment works, in which I am going to be really, really rich and buy the skins from Danny). That was a decision that should have been made earlier, that is all I am saying. The writing was on the wall when he signed Brunell and drafted Campbell. We could have gotten a much higher pick, hell a pick at all since now we get dick!!

But why would he then keep him and let him start the first game ? Just so he can stick it to ramsey and say i'll waste one of your years in the nfl - I don't think that Gibbs is vindictive like that, and if he was - he had nothing against ramsey. Like someone posted - Theisman was with the redskins before gibbs, and i'm sure he would have liked ramsey to succeed just as well. I just don't understand why he would intentionally wait to deal ramsey, if he knew that he wouldn't give ramsey a chance. It just sucks for everyone involved - the redskins team, ramsey, and gibbs, himself.

[BrudLee]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

But why would he then keep him and let him start the first game ? Just so he can stick it to ramsey and say i'll waste one of your years in the nfl - I don't think that Gibbs is vindictive like that, and if he was - he had nothing against ramsey. Like someone posted - Theisman was with the redskins before gibbs, and i'm sure he would have liked ramsey to succeed just as well. I just don't understand why he would intentionally wait to deal ramsey, if he knew that he wouldn't give ramsey a chance. It just sucks for everyone involved - the redskins team, ramsey, and gibbs, himself.

I think that in looking for a villain in the Ramsey situation, we are forgetting the facts.

1) Gibbs gave the job, grudingly, to Ramsey after Brunell's horrible 2004 season - one that was marred by injury. Clearly he preferred Brunell's decision-making, but Ramsey's arm was measurably better than Brunell's.

2) Ramsey made several mistakes in his opening game - understandable mistakes, but mistakes nonetheless. Ramsey threw an interception on his second pass of the game, and his other two drives ended with fumbles, including the one on his injury that was recovered by Chicago. Ramsey finished 6 of 11 for 105 yards with two sacks and a 49.4 passer rating. Brunell, while not explosive, managed three scoring drives. Error-free football wins the day, and Brunell emerges the starter.

3) Trade overtures from the Jets (and other teams) at the deadline, would have left the team scrambling for a credible backup. The only other QB on the roster was Campbell, who was not ready for the job. While the offers were reportedly better than the ones we are hearing now, we would have left the franchise to a player who wasn't healthy enough to finish the previous year, with a rookie or someone off the street to replace him in case of injury.

Though we didn't need Ramsey on the team (he played only sparingly in blowouts the remainder of the season), that couldn't have been clear in late September, when the Jets were making overtures. Keeping Ramsey wasn't a question of Gibbs trying to screw Ramsey or anyone else, it was Gibbs trying to field the best roster he could in 2005.

[Huddle]

Originally Posted by firstdown

If everyone in the league saw what you might see in Ramsey he would be gone by now. He is a low price pick up for another team and they are not going after him. I thought that a team by now might have picked up Ramsey just to bring in a QB that could compete for the starting job and if not the starter a solid back up. Maybe other teams see what Gibbs see in Ramsey and are not willing to take the chance on him. He will find a new team but I think it will be as a back up for the first year atleast.

Ramsey wants to go somewhere where he has the chance to start. He isn't going to sign an extension with a team that doesn't suit him...and without that extension...there's not much value in picking up the last year of his contract. Particularly when he's probably going to be released if the team can't find someone who wants him for only one year.