Who starts at QB?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Huddle

And, young Mark Brunell got a chance to prove himself in Jacksonville because some dumb ass in Green Bay didn't give it to him.

Farve got the buisness from atlanta as well. Brees was horrible and would have been cut if it wasen't for a holdout by Rivers in 2004.

Bottom line does anyone believe that Brunell is the answer? Good luck if you do, Brunell is NO difference maker on the field, the day we win a SB with Brunell is the same day we could win one without him.

Anyone who thinks Ramsey recieved fair treatment is only kidding themselves. Gibbs has a major bias for Brunell, if you want to say that Gibbs is on the money about Ramsey, and he is no good, fine, but who really believes that Brunell is any good? Does anyone really believe that just because Gibbs marches Brunell out on that field every sunday that he's the goods?

Im tired of hearing about Ramseys mistakes, as if Brunell didn't make the same mistakes or worse when he was on the field, the difference is Gibbs was willing to overlook Brunells mistakes, but no Ramseys.

And fianlly why is Ramsey out of here? Because Gibbs had to bribe him to keep his mouth shut last season in return for freedom from our organazation in the offseason.

Gibbs in his handling of Ramsey absolutly destroyed any value Ramsey had as if he had some kind of vendetta against the guy, now we pigeon hole ouselves with the signing of Collins, and Collins is going to be our #2 QB? That's right Todd Collins is going to be our #2 what a comforting feeling knowing how brittle Brunell is at this point in his carreer, If Campbell isn't ready to take over the starting job this season we have a problem, and Gibbs has a problem as far as his talent evaluation goes, but we will just have to wait and see, I would love for Ramsey to find a nice fit for himself. we will regreat this upcoming season when he's no longer around because I don't believe Brunell will last another season.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by offiss

Farve got the buisness from atlanta as well. Brees was horrible and would have been cut if it wasen't for a holdout by Rivers in 2004.

Bottom line does anyone believe that Brunell is the answer? Good luck if you do, Brunell is NO difference maker on the field, the day we win a SB with Brunell is the same day we could win one without him.

Anyone who thinks Ramsey recieved fair treatment is only kidding themselves. Gibbs has a major bias for Brunell, if you want to say that Gibbs is on the money about Ramsey, and he is no good, fine, but who really believes that Brunell is any good? Does anyone really believe that just because Gibbs marches Brunell out on that field every sunday that he's the goods?

Im tired of hearing about Ramseys mistakes, as if Brunell didn't make the same mistakes or worse when he was on the field, the difference is Gibbs was willing to overlook Brunells mistakes, but no Ramseys.

And fianlly why is Ramsey out of here? Because Gibbs had to bribe him to keep his mouth shut last season in return for freedom from our organazation in the offseason.

Gibbs in his handling of Ramsey absolutly destroyed any value Ramsey had as if he had some kind of vendetta against the guy, now we pigeon hole ouselves with the signing of Collins, and Collins is going to be our #2 QB? That's right Todd Collins is going to be our #2 what a comforting feeling knowing how brittle Brunell is at this point in his carreer, If Campbell isn't ready to take over the starting job this season we have a problem, and Gibbs has a problem as far as his talent evaluation goes, but we will just have to wait and see, I would love for Ramsey to find a nice fit for himself. we will regreat this upcoming season when he's no longer around because I don't believe Brunell will last another season.

, SQUAWK!!!

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by offiss

Farve got the buisness from atlanta as well. Brees was horrible and would have been cut if it wasen't for a holdout by Rivers in 2004.

Bottom line does anyone believe that Brunell is the answer? Good luck if you do, Brunell is NO difference maker on the field, the day we win a SB with Brunell is the same day we could win one without him.

Anyone who thinks Ramsey recieved fair treatment is only kidding themselves. Gibbs has a major bias for Brunell, if you want to say that Gibbs is on the money about Ramsey, and he is no good, fine, but who really believes that Brunell is any good? Does anyone really believe that just because Gibbs marches Brunell out on that field every sunday that he's the goods?

Im tired of hearing about Ramseys mistakes, as if Brunell didn't make the same mistakes or worse when he was on the field, the difference is Gibbs was willing to overlook Brunells mistakes, but no Ramseys.

And fianlly why is Ramsey out of here? Because Gibbs had to bribe him to keep his mouth shut last season in return for freedom from our organazation in the offseason.

Gibbs in his handling of Ramsey absolutly destroyed any value Ramsey had as if he had some kind of vendetta against the guy, now we pigeon hole ouselves with the signing of Collins, and Collins is going to be our #2 QB? That's right Todd Collins is going to be our #2 what a comforting feeling knowing how brittle Brunell is at this point in his carreer, If Campbell isn't ready to take over the starting job this season we have a problem, and Gibbs has a problem as far as his talent evaluation goes, but we will just have to wait and see, I would love for Ramsey to find a nice fit for himself. we will regreat this upcoming season when he's no longer around because I don't believe Brunell will last another season.

Raise your hand if you think Ramsey didn't get fair treatment is BS

Did Gibbs bribe him with Portis' steroids?

I don't know much we really regretted 2005, getting to the playoffs for the first time since 1999, finishing with a winning record...all without Ramsey. So I doubt we'll regret 2006 without him again. Of course, apparently we would have been 14-2 and world champs with Ramsey

[Huddle]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Raise your hand if you think Ramsey didn't get fair treatment is BS

I mentioned this in another thread.

A poll on extremeskins, voted on by about 250 fans, showed that fans thought Ramsey had not had a fair shot as a Redskin by a margin of almost exactly 2 - 1.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Huddle

I mentioned this in another thread.

A poll on extremeskins, voted on by about 250 fans, showed that fans thought Ramsey had not had a fair shot as a Redskin by a margin of almost exactly 2 - 1.

I don't doubt that. I'd side with the 2 in that case. But it's not the important question. The question is who gives us a better shot at winning.

I'm sorry that poor Patrick's feelings got hurt and he didn't get the chance he deserved because he's such a nice guy and a hard worker; but Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care. We went 10-6 with Brunell and I'm looking forward to better with either him or Campbell.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I don't doubt that. I'd side with the 2 in that case. But it's not the important question. The question is who gives us a better shot at winning.

I'm sorry that poor Patrick's feelings got hurt and he didn't get the chance he deserved because he's such a nice guy and a hard worker; but Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care. We went 10-6 with Brunell and I'm looking forward to better with either him or Campbell.

Agreed.

Instead of daydreaming about coulda, shoulda, woulda with Ramsey, how about we focus on what did happen with Brunell, and that's a playoff appearance.

[Huddle]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I don't doubt that. I'd side with the 2 in that case. But it's not the important question. The question is who gives us a better shot at winning.

I'm sorry that poor Patrick's feelings got hurt and he didn't get the chance he deserved because he's such a nice guy and a hard worker; but Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care. We went 10-6 with Brunell and I'm looking forward to better with either him or Campbell.

You miss the point.

We invested a number one draft choice in him and we still aren't sure, after four years, that he isn't our best QB (especially since he proved himself our best for three years running).

Sure, let's move on and give Campbell a fair shot. I've seen Brunell's game.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Huddle

You miss the point.

We invested a number one draft choice in him and we still aren't sure, after four years, that he isn't our best QB (especially since he proved himself our best for three years running).

Sure, let's move on and give Campbell a fair shot. I've seen Brunell's game.

Now you're getting into an argument over how good Brunell is. And if you're arguing that he's worthless, you don't have any ground to stand on. 23 TDs and 10 INTs. It speaks for itself.

[Huddle]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Now you're getting into an argument over how good Brunell is. And if you're arguing that he's worthless, you don't have any ground to stand on. 23 TDs and 10 INTs. It speaks for itself.

Individual stats don't say anything to me. I watch the game.

I saw a QB who played at an all-pro level in the early part of the season but one whose game is too limited, and thus easily defended, at this stage of his career.

[BrudLee]

Originally Posted by Huddle

I mentioned this in another thread.

A poll on extremeskins, voted on by about 250 fans, showed that fans thought Ramsey had not had a fair shot as a Redskin by a margin of almost exactly 2 - 1.

Excellent point. As we all know, only those who are qualified to make such a call would even think about answering an internet poll question.

Huddle (and everyone else), I like Ramsey a whole lot, and think he could've been a quality NFL starter. He wasn't well coached, and he wasn't protected in his first few years, and it cost him confidence - both his own, and that of his teammates. He may still do well in this league, but it's best for him and for us to part ways.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by offiss

Gibbs in his handling of Ramsey absolutly destroyed any value Ramsey had as if he had some kind of vendetta against the guy, now we pigeon hole ouselves with the signing of Collins, and Collins is going to be our #2 QB? That's right Todd Collins is going to be our #2 what a comforting feeling knowing how brittle Brunell is at this point in his carreer, If Campbell isn't ready to take over the starting job this season we have a problem, and Gibbs has a problem as far as his talent evaluation goes, but we will just have to wait and see, I would love for Ramsey to find a nice fit for himself. we will regreat this upcoming season when he's no longer around because I don't believe Brunell will last another season.

I'm just messing with you, Offiss. Only because you say the same things all the time.

A serious note though. The bolded part of your post seems to assume that Campbell is total trash and isn't even ready to be the #2. I think that's a terrible assumption to make. Are you basing that on the Schefter report? Because I don't think it's accurate in the least.

You seem to be so quick to defend Ramsey, saying he didn't have a fair shot. And yet you don't seem willing to give Campbell a chance to prove himself in your mind at all. That's a true sign that you're a Ramsey homer.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

the day we win a SB with Brunell is the same day we could win one without him.

I'll take a SB win regardless of who's playing QB, hell I'd take it if you suited up and played! LOL

[JET]

Offiss, to attribute Gibbs treatment of Ramsey to malice is to stray beyond what seems reasonable. It doesn't fit Gibbs character and it has hurt the team in terms of what they can get trade-wise for Ramsey. I didn't much care for Gibbs preference for Brunell myself, but we'll never know if the season would have been better, the same, or worse with Ramsey at the helm. It's really an exercise in aggravation to waste time wondering about it.

And yet I did anyway. I did a bit of stat comparison, just out of morbid curiousity. Here are some numbers from Ramsey in 2004 (the second line is what his stats might have looked like for 16 games) and Brunell in 2005. I figure the addition of Moss and Rabach, and return of Jansen balance out Brunells injury. By that I mean Brunells numbers in 2004 were artificially bad, so with the increase in talent in 2005 things come close to evening out. There are flaws in this comparison, but anyway:

QB_____Games Yds TDs Ints Fumbles lost yds/game rating sacked yds
Ramsey_9____1665_10_11__6______1___185______74.8__ 23____137
_______16___2960_18_20__11_____2___ 185______74.8__41____244

Brunell_16____3050_23_10__10_____6___190.6_____85. 9__27____213

Yardage wise things are about on par. The fumbles are about even. Brunell lost more but the difference in a fumble being a turnover versus being recovered by the offense are usually due to chance, so I don't hold this stat against Mark.

The TD-interception ratio and sacks are what really jump out at me. Brunell is much better at avoiding interceptions. I always thought that Ramsey would make up for this difference with the yards he gained, but I was wrong. The sacks are funny, in a sad way. Brunell lost quite a few more yards per sack, probably because of the extra deep drops he takes.

I started this comparison thinking that it would show Ramsey the superior QB, but I was wrong. On paper Brunell outperformed him. It goes to show how far perception can be from reality.

Edit: My formatting skillz are subpar