Eagles solve WR problems

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I agree with Matty that Gaffney isn't a great wideout and doesn't solve the Eagles problems.

But, keep in mind two things that have been alluded to already: (1) Gaffney averaged about 40 catches a year with David Carr under center (which is pretty good); and (2) Philadelphia had a decent offense before T.O.

As to the second point, I think a lot of people are underestimating the Eagles. Prior to T.O.'s arrival, the Eagles had a good offense. The Eagles were decent when they had Freddie Mitchell, Todd Pinkston, and James Thrash at wideout - that says a lot. They spread out the ball between those awful wideouts, Brian Westbrook, Chad Lewis, and L.J. Smith and did just fine. Were they a high powered offense? No. Were they an explosive offense? No. But they were good enough to propel them to the playoffs for several consecutive seasons.

Don't think the Eagles' offense is going to be a cakewalk. Remember, we barely beat them when McNabb was coming off an injury, Todd Pinkston was on IR, their #1 wideout was a rookie, and their offensive line was mangled. While our offense and defense are improved and I'm not terribly worried about the Eagles, I wouldn't assume that we will have an easy time beating them.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

As to the second point, I think a lot of people are underestimating the Eagles.

That's what I was kind of worrying about, too. But I don't think gibbs lets anything get him overconfident over any opposing team, especially any in the nfc east.

... but I was also more worried in the idea that they're so bad that they can't be as bad as they seem. I don't actually believe that they are good at all. The question is: how bad off are they ?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

That's what I was kind of worrying about, too. But I don't think gibbs lets anything get him overconfident over any opposing team, especially any in the nfc east.

... but I was also more worried in the idea that they're so bad that they can't be as bad as they seem. I don't actually believe that they are good at all. The question is: how bad off are they ?

I doubt Gibbs underestimates anyone. I think he has a lot of respect for the Eagles.

I don't think they're bad off at all. With a lot of people returning from IR and the acquisitions of Darren Howard and Shawn Barber, I would say they're better off than they were before they got T.O. There will be a drop off from their 2004 offensive producion, but they're still a force to be reckoned with. They worry me more than the Giants or Cowboys.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I doubt Gibbs underestimates anyone. I think he has a lot of respect for the Eagles.

I don't think they're bad off at all. With a lot of people returning from IR and the acquisitions of Darren Howard and Shawn Barber, I would say they're better off than they were before they got T.O. There will be a drop off from their 2004 offensive producion, but they're still a force to be reckoned with. They worry me more than the Giants or Cowboys.

Yes, I agree that he usually doesn't underestimate anyone, especially an nfc east opponent.

But I was referring to their offense and specifically wr corps as being weak. How weak? I wouldn't know until they played.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I agree with Matty that Gaffney isn't a great wideout and doesn't solve the Eagles problems.

But, keep in mind two things that have been alluded to already: (1) Gaffney averaged about 40 catches a year with David Carr under center (which is pretty good); and (2) Philadelphia had a decent offense before T.O.

As to the second point, I think a lot of people are underestimating the Eagles. Prior to T.O.'s arrival, the Eagles had a good offense. The Eagles were decent when they had Freddie Mitchell, Todd Pinkston, and James Thrash at wideout - that says a lot. They spread out the ball between those awful wideouts, Brian Westbrook, Chad Lewis, and L.J. Smith and did just fine. Were they a high powered offense? No. Were they an explosive offense? No. But they were good enough to propel them to the playoffs for several consecutive seasons.

Don't think the Eagles' offense is going to be a cakewalk. Remember, we barely beat them when McNabb was coming off an injury, Todd Pinkston was on IR, their #1 wideout was a rookie, and their offensive line was mangled. While our defense is improved and I'm not terribly worried about the Eagles, I wouldn't assume that we will have an easy time beating them.

Yes and no.

Yes, they had a solid offense pre-Owens. It plays disciplined, solid ball. It spreads the ball around and will beat you w/ a thousand cuts. BUT, one of the reasons the could do that was a defense that was just plain nasty. A D-Line that could rush the passer and top corners that could run support and hold down top receivers. I just don't see the defense being on the same level as it used to be. Darren Howard is NOT Hugh Douglas 2.0. Kearse in 06 is not the same as Kearse in 04. I think this defense is now older, slower and just doesn't have the talent level it used to.

Don't get me wrong - Reid is a good coach, this team will play solid ball and will not beat itself. Yes - we had a tough time with them last year. I think that was more on our offense than b/c them out playing us.

B/c of its coaching, Philly is never going to be a cake walk. I just think its talent level, due to age and the failure of younger players to step up, is not up to the same level as in previous years. Owens or no Owens, Gaffney is simply not an upgrade in any sense of the word; he is simply more of the same.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I think this defense is now older, slower and just doesn't have the talent level it used to.

What are their weak points? Not coaching, since their D-coordinator is a stud. Their secondary is pretty damn good with Sheppard, Brown, Dawkins, and Lewis. Their linebacking corps of Jones, Barber, and Trotter are solid. Their D-line of Kearse, Howard, Patterson, and Walker are solid.

Granted, they are older, but I don't see any glaring weaknesses. While their defense has been their strong point (as you point out) and may be aging, I still view it as pretty formidable.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

What are their weak points? Not coaching, since their D-coordinator is a stud. Their secondary is pretty damn good with Sheppard, Brown, Dawkins, and Lewis. Their linebacking corps of Jones, Barber, and Trotter are solid. Their D-line of Kearse, Howard, Patterson, and Walker are solid.

Granted, they are older, but I don't see any glaring weaknesses. While their defense has been their strong point (as you point out) and may be aging, I still view it as pretty formidable.

Again, I don't disagree with you that they are not team that can be taken for granted. I just don't think they are the force they used to be. As for the secondary: Brown took a major step back last year, Dawkins is Dawkins but he is a year older. I disagree that Jones, Barber and Trotter are "solid", in fact, I would suggest that they are the weakpoint of this D. Trotter is a run into the gap and tackle in the backfield Mike - coverage? Not Trotter's game. Barber is coming off a major injury and is older than he was the last time he tried that - the guy was contemplating retirement. Jones as your Sam? No thnk you - he can be (and I'm pretty sure he was) pushed around by big the TE's and (I think) he was not that great as a pass rusher. I think the D-Line is average at best - I am betting they will not get 16 games out of Howard (maybe 10) and even in those he will not be a game changer, just a good solid DE (Daniels on 'roids). As for Kearse, I'm sorry he just doesn't have it anymore. He was a non-factor last year and I don't see him turning it around.

Other than Sheppard, their D last year had all its starters - and still got shoved around. Their FA pick ups this year (Barber, Howard) simply don't look to me to be major upgrades over what they had last year.

As I said, I think they will play solid disciplined defense BUT I just don't see any game breakers on that side of the ball like they had in 04 with Kearse, Burgess, Corey Simon, Trotter, Sheppard and Dawkins. The only two from that list that, IMHO, will be better than average in 06 will be Sheppard and Dawkins.

On offense, its the Donovan & Brian show. Gaffney is maybe as good as the 03 version of Thrash - but that's it. Spread the ball all you want - but this offense will be very stoppable by a disciplined, attacking Skins defense (key being disciplined) and I just don't see their defense keepping pace with the Al Saunders inspired and Portis, Moss, Cooley driven offense of the Skins.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

What are their weak points? Not coaching, since their D-coordinator is a stud. Their secondary is pretty damn good with Sheppard, Brown, Dawkins, and Lewis. Their linebacking corps of Jones, Barber, and Trotter are solid. Their D-line of Kearse, Howard, Patterson, and Walker are solid.

Granted, they are older, but I don't see any glaring weaknesses. While their defense has been their strong point (as you point out) and may be aging, I still view it as pretty formidable.

Hey Sheriff, are you the former Ramseyfan? If so, I guess I missed the formal announcement.

The Eagles won’t be pushovers in '06 by any means. I would expect at least a slight rebound from their 6-10 record last year. Donovan McNabb at 100% makes that offense better by himself. And you’re right that their passing game did just fine with very average receivers, even before Terrell Owens got there.

That said, they have the same core group of players that have been there for 4 to 5 seasons now. They made up an amazing tandem that brought them to 4 straight NFC Championship games and then to the Super Bowl. But their window of success, even with an excellent coaching staff, is beginning to close. I do believe you’ll see an overall decline from Philly soon enough, not dissimilar from what we’re witnessing from the Green Bay Packers.

While struggling to make games against the Eagles interesting from 2002 - 2004, the Redskins are by far the superior team now. You certainly can’t discount them totally, but just about every facet of our team is much more equipped to handle any threat the Eagles can throw at us.