Smoking Laws in NY and NJ

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Not a fair comparison? What would be the difference between the government acting on behalf of the health of non-smoking patrons of a restaurant by banning smoking, and doing the same by prohibiting that same restaurant from serving unhealthy foods?

They're very different. One rule denies people the opportunity to eat food anywhere. The other denies people the opportunity to smoke IN CERTAIN PLACES. I don't see what's so hard to understand here. One is an all out ban, the other simply designates areas as off-limits.

If we were banning smoking altogether, I'd be against it. But we're not.

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Your idea of personal freedom is an interesting one. Instead of acknowledging my right to start a business, say, a cigar bar that caters to cigar smokers, you're more interested in the right of a non-smoking patron to walk in that cigar bar, be upset with the smoke, and get the government to close down my business. That's kind of absurd, don't you think?

Cigar bars are an interesting case. That's a place specifically geared towards smokers. There's generally no reason that someone would go there unless they want to smoke, or be in the company of other smokers. So in that case I'd say cigar bars should be exempt from smoking bans. Their business is based around smoking, so they should be left alone.

Regular bars however, exist primarily to give people a place to socialize and have drinks. Smoking is not a necessary part of the business, it's just something that comes along with those who drink. You can eliminate smoking in the bar without putting the bar out of business.

If you disagree with that point, why don't we revisit this issue in 6 months or so. Let's see how many bars in NJ have gone out of business by then. I'm guessing the rate at which bars fail in NJ will not change from pre-ban times. Bars make a killing, they'll get along fine. Smokers will still show up, they'll adapt and smoke outside.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

They're very different. One rule denies people the opportunity to eat food anywhere. The other denies people the opportunity to smoke IN CERTAIN PLACES. I don't see what's so hard to understand here. One is an all out ban, the other simply designates areas as off-limits.

I'm not talking about an all-out ban, Schneed. I never said anything about a ban on all fried, fatty, unhealthy foods EVERYWHERE. I'm talking restaurants only. In this scenario, I'm assuming that you can eat whatever you want if you go elsewhere, or decide to eat at home -- just like you can with smoking -- if you don't like it, you can stay home and eat or find another restaurant.

If the government can ban smoking in restaurants to protect the health of the patrons, why can't they do the same with the food that restaurant serves?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I'm not talking about an all-out ban, Schneed. I never said anything about a ban on all fried, fatty, unhealthy foods EVERYWHERE. I'm talking restaurants only. In this scenario, I'm assuming that you can eat whatever you want if you go elsewhere, or decide to eat at home -- just like you can with smoking -- if you don't like it, you can stay home and eat or find another restaurant.

If the government can ban smoking in restaurants to protect the health of the patrons, why can't they do the same with the food that restaurant serves?

OK fine, but there's still a difference. Restaurants offer choices, you can choose to order something fatty or you can choose to order something healthy. If I want to order something healthy, whether or not the guy sitting behind me is eating fried chicken has absolutely NO IMPACT on my health. Some restaurants only serve fatty foods, such as KFC. But if I want to be healthy, I'm not forced to go to KFC to eat. I have OPTIONS, I can go to Subway.

However, if I want to find a bar to meet a girl in (I'm married, so this is just hypothetical) I'll have to put up with somebody else's unhealthy habit. I have NO CHOICE. I could opt to stay home, but I ask you what's easier: ask those who don't like smoke to stay home, or simply ask those who smoke to step outside and return when finished?