Brunell in Saunders's offense ?

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by That Guy

ugh...



collins was brought in cause he knows the system. he's not that good, he's probably not even as good as schaub right now. He's no threat to brunell. Saunders brought him in to teach and so we have an experienced backup if brunell goes down and campbell isn't ready. that's it, end of story.



Saunders is NOT going to turn dockery into brian waters or ladell betts into larry johnson. It's just not happening. The play calling and formation shifts will create more mismatches and open space, but not to the point where betts could put up 1500 yards as a featured back... If it were really that easy, portis would have been gone months ago.



Let's please not overhype and oversell our offseason. It was good, we upgraded all of our weaknesses, we'll definately be better. were probably not going 16-0 though, and our #3 QB is NOT going to the pro bowl or outplaying both brunell and campbell... no matter what.

First of all he is listed as the #2 qb. And second, I am not trying to oversell the redskins' offseason moves. Who said anything about him going to the probowl. And by Saunders's own words he believes, "Todd is as good a technician as there is in this passing game". Who do you think at this point, has the most important opinion on who should be the qb ?

And who said turning any of the redskins into any of the chiefs ? I don't see anywhere where someone brings up betts being the next larry johnson in this thread. I think you better read more than the last couple of posts before you post yourself.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

First of all he is listed as the #2 qb. And second, I am not trying to oversell the redskins' offseason moves. Who said anything about him going to the probowl. And by Saunders's own words he believes, "Todd is as good a technician as there is in this passing game". Who do you think at this point, has the most important opinion on who should be the qb ?

And who said turning any of the redskins into any of the chiefs ? I don't see anywhere where someone brings up betts being the next larry johnson in this thread. I think you better read more than the last couple of posts before you post yourself.

I don't think Guy was directing his comments to you, per se. But the general tone of us collectively about the possibilty of Collins being more than what he really is. And furthermore how the Redskins are going to just anahilate everyone they line up against.

In general, I think our expectations are little bit high.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I don't think Guy was directing his comments to you, per se. But the general tone of us collectively about the possibilty of Collins being more than what he really is. And furthermore how the Redskins are going to just anahilate everyone they line up against.

In general, I think our expectations are little bit high.

Maybe so, but he just missed the point of this entire thread by posting that here.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Maybe so, but he just missed the point of this entire thread by posting that here.

:P and you just missed the entire point of a DISCUSSION forum. Someone said something, I felt like bringing up a valid point. you got needlessly defensive and reactionary.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Rich Gannon, Kurt Warner, and even Trent Green come to mind.

Both Gannon and Green showed scouts that they could play well before they ever got to the situations where they achieved success. Warner was never really unsuccessful anywhere, getting his first oppertunity in St. Louis and having nothing but success. Although the media makes it out to sound like these guys came out of obscurity, NFL scouts are paid to find talent like those guys. When the Raiders got Gannon and the Chiefs got Green, they both fully expected the guys to lead their respective teams to victory. The Rams didn't go out and replace Warner after Green got hurt, so the same applies to him.

With Collins, hes been in the league for so long, and has never so much as gotten a sniff. That doesn't mean hes a bad QB, but it does keep him away from the Green, Gannon, Warner category.

The important point I'm making here is that none of the three successful QBs you mentioned had to win a QB battle to get the job that made them famous. Green and Gannon were signed as starters, and Warner was annointed as one after Green's injury.

Brunell is our QB.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The important point I'm making here is that none of the three successful QBs you mentioned had to win a QB battle to get the job that made them famous. Green and Gannon were signed as starters, and Warner was annointed as one after Green's injury.

I guess if the redskins just give Collins (or campbell) the starting spot and not make them have to win it. That would allow them to be successful. I don't know... it may work.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I guess if the redskins just give Collins (or campbell) the starting spot and not make them have to win it. That would allow them to be successful. I don't know... it may work.

It's not about just getting the starting job. It the reasoning behind why they were signed to be the starter that is the same as the reasoning why they were successful.

A good job by the scouting department. Those guys could play, they just went unnoticed early in their careers.

With Collins, it just seems like no coach (Saunders included) wants to go into battle with him. Remember, Vermeil took the KC job so he could, among other reasons, make Trent Green his QB.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It's not about just getting the starting job. It the reasoning behind why they were signed to be the starter that is the same as the reasoning why they were successful.

A good job by the scouting department. Those guys could play, they just went unnoticed early in their careers.

With Collins, it just seems like no coach (Saunders included) wants to go into battle with him. Remember, Vermeil took the KC job so he could, among other reasons, make Trent Green his QB.

Saunders never said he didn't want to go to battle with him. Actually he is saying the opposite.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Both Gannon and Green showed scouts that they could play well before they ever got to the situations where they achieved success. Warner was never really unsuccessful anywhere, getting his first oppertunity in St. Louis and having nothing but success. Although the media makes it out to sound like these guys came out of obscurity, NFL scouts are paid to find talent like those guys. When the Raiders got Gannon and the Chiefs got Green, they both fully expected the guys to lead their respective teams to victory.

Gannon was at best a journeyman when he first became successful at the age of 34 with the Raiders. Green had 1 year of good play with the redskins after 6 years in the league and guess who was new with STL when Green went there: Saunders. And who was there and became successful when Green was injured after becoming the starter: Warner. Saunders was no doubt part of both of their success in STL and then KC.

Sometimes, qbs are unlucky and don't get a good chance to show how good they really are. And disclaimer: not saying Collins is good. Just going by what Saunders is saying. Saunders has been around long enough to give him that respect. And I for one don't think he is blowing smoke with what he says with Collins.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Gannon was at best a journeyman when he first became successful at the age of 34 with the Raiders. Green had 1 year of good play with the redskins after 6 years in the league and guess who was new with STL when Green went there: Saunders. And who was there and became successful when Green was injured after becoming the starter: Warner. Saunders was no doubt part of both of their success in STL and then KC.

Sometimes, qbs are unlucky and don't get a good chance to show how good they really are. And disclaimer: not saying Collins is good. Just going by what Saunders is saying. Saunders has been around long enough to give him that respect. And I for one don't think he is blowing smoke with what he says with Collins.

again, all of those guys (and warner) had 4-5 full years as starters by the time they hit 35, so they were good enough to prove they should start for multiple years. collins has had 1 ho-hum year as a starter to this point...

you still have yet to show a QB who started at 35+ after doing nothing and was successful. naming guys with 5 years of ACTUAL playing time (100+ games w/ pre/post season) and a super bowl before 35 isn't really much in the way of proof.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by That Guy

you still have yet to show a QB who started at 35+ after doing nothing and was successful. naming guys with 5 years of ACTUAL playing time (100+ games w/ pre/post season) and a super bowl before 35 isn't really much in the way of proof.

George Blanda. I say if Collins can kick a 55 yarder, we should start him opening day.

At kicker.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by That Guy

again, all of those guys (and warner) had 4-5 full years as starters by the time they hit 35, so they were good enough to prove they should start for multiple years. collins has had 1 ho-hum year as a starter to this point...

you still have yet to show a QB who started at 35+ after doing nothing and was successful. naming guys with 5 years of ACTUAL playing time (100+ games w/ pre/post season) and a super bowl before 35 isn't really much in the way of proof.

Yeah, gannon started a whole bunch of games before he got to the raiders when he was almost 34, but he didn't accomplish anything. He was a journeyman by definition before he succeeded with the raiders.

Did you know he had a one year stint with the redskins ?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

First of all he is listed as the #2 qb. And second, I am not trying to oversell the redskins' offseason moves. Who said anything about him going to the probowl. And by Saunders's own words he believes, "Todd is as good a technician as there is in this passing game". Who do you think at this point, has the most important opinion on who should be the qb ?

And who said turning any of the redskins into any of the chiefs ? I don't see anywhere where someone brings up betts being the next larry johnson in this thread. I think you better read more than the last couple of posts before you post yourself.

before accussing me of not reading, maybe you should look at the posts here first. talking about what if collins plays lights out and such. and what do you expect saunders to say? "collins sucks, but he was cheap"... i mean come on, I bet you think taylor jacobs is freaking awesome cause of how hard gibbs pushed him too right? collins is OLD now, how many QBs breakout suddenly after doing absolutely nothing in their careers AFTER 35? honestly...

if i'm not allowed to have an opinion, then who made you god?

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by That Guy

before accussing me of not reading, maybe you should look at the posts here first. talking about what if collins plays lights out and such. and what do you expect saunders to say? "collins sucks, but he was cheap"... i mean come on, I bet you think taylor jacobs is freaking awesome cause of how hard gibbs pushed him too right?

seriously, if i'm not allowed to have an opinion, then who made you god?

never said you are not allowed to have an opinion, just read a little bit more and get some more understanding before you post in a thread. To me, you are way off on what you think this post is about. I didn't think collins was going to play lights out - it's a "what if" question. And Saunders doesn't have to say anything about him - but what he said was more complimentary than saying he was a decent backup.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

never said you are not allowed to have an opinion, just read a little bit more and get some more understanding before you post in a thread. To me, you are way off on what you think this post is about. I didn't think collins was going to play lights out - it's a "what if" question. And Saunders doesn't have to say anything about him - but what he said was more complimentary than saying he was a decent backup.

get some more understanding? so i'm supposed to be pyschic and tell you how great you are now? no thanks. why don't you try articulating you thoughts better instead. You should be careful before intimating someone else is an idiot, cause that finger could very easily be pointed back at you.

and i was replying to you what-if, which for some reason, you think is a terrible offense. If you didn't want responses, then why did you post it?

saunders was asked about his QB situation, he had to say something in response. that was NOT an unprovoked statement, and he complimented campbell as well. you seem to be reading way too much into it though. gibbs and champ bailey and spurrier ALL said taylor jacobs was amazing, and we see how that turned out thusfar right? its an opinion, not gospel.