Ramsey update

BrudLee · 06-22-2006, 09:33 AM

Perhaps we're beginning to learn that sometimes a guy doesn't get a fair shake because he doesn't earn it.

There are players in the NFL that aren't nearly as good as Ramsey, but they don't have the expectations that he suffered under. It's a shame because he seems to be a stand-up guy. Unfortunately, the chances he was given weren't successful, often for reasons outside his ability to control.

mheisig · 06-22-2006, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrudLee

Perhaps we're beginning to learn that sometimes a guy doesn't get a fair shake because he doesn't earn it.

There are players in the NFL that aren't nearly as good as Ramsey, but they don't have the expectations that he suffered under. It's a shame because he seems to be a stand-up guy. Unfortunately, the chances he was given weren't successful, often for reasons outside his ability to control.

Or more simply, just outside his ability altogether.

He's a nice guy, but at a certain point you've got to admit he's not cut out to be a #1 QB in the NFL. Doesn't make him any less of a nice guy, just means he doesn't have the talent.

Southpaw · 06-22-2006, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrudLee

There are players in the NFL that aren't nearly as good as Ramsey, but they don't have the expectations that he suffered under. It's a shame because he seems to be a stand-up guy. Unfortunately, the chances he was given weren't successful, often for reasons outside his ability to control.

This is the most intelligent comment on this topic. Ramsey is better than the two quarterbacks that were selected before him in the draft, and they've both had three full seasons to mature. Harrington fizzled out, but until last season, he had the full support of the coaching staff. Carr still has the support of his team, and he has yet to prove anything except that he was picked WAY too early in the draft.

Meanwhile, Ramsey was circle jerked in an out of the lineup by Spurrier, and then blackballed by Gibbs. His maturation suffered, and eventually the fans turned on him. My only hope is that Campbell doesn't throw a pick in his first start, otherwise he'll be a bust in the eyes of typical Redskins fans.

mheisig · 06-22-2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southpaw

This is the most intelligent comment on this topic. Ramsey is better than the two quarterbacks that were selected before him in the draft, and they've both had three full seasons to mature. Harrington fizzled out, but until last season, he had the full support of the coaching staff. Carr still has the support of his team, and he has yet to prove anything except that he was picked WAY too early in the draft.

Meanwhile, Ramsey was circle jerked in an out of the lineup by Spurrier, and then blackballed by Gibbs. His maturation suffered, and eventually the fans turned on him. My only hope is that Campbell doesn't throw a pick in his first start, otherwise he'll be a bust in the eyes of typical Redskins fans.

What proof do you have to back that up?

Southpaw · 06-22-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mheisig

What proof do you have to back that up?

Ummmm... which part?

mheisig · 06-22-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Ummmm... which part?

The part from your post that I put in gigantic bold text. Let's try again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Ramsey is better than the two quarterbacks that were selected before him in the draft

Not trying to be an ass, I'm just honestly curious.

Southpaw · 06-22-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mheisig

Not trying to be an ass, I'm just honestly curious.

Career Numbers:

Joey Harrington - Average of 186 yards per start. Two more picks than TD's for his career. 68.1 career QB Rating.

David Carr - Average of 180 yards per start. Five more picks than TD's for his career. 73.7 career QB Rating.

Patrick Ramsey - Average of 235 yards per start. Five more TD's than picks for his career. 75.0 career QB Rating.

And yet, Carr and Harrington have each "earned" 30+ more starts than Ramsey...

cpayne5 · 06-22-2006, 10:51 AM

Yet he's getting beat out by a rookie at the moment and may not even make it through training camp...

12thMan · 06-22-2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Career Numbers:

Joey Harrington - Average of 186 yards per start. Two more picks than TD's for his career. 68.1 career QB Rating.

David Carr - Average of 180 yards per start. Five more picks than TD's for his career. 73.7 career QB Rating.

Patrick Ramsey - Average of 235 yards per start. Five more TD's than picks for his career. 75.0 career QB Rating.

And yet, Carr and Harrington have each "earned" 30+ more starts than Ramsey...

Don't you think the numbers are, in fact, skewed by the difference in number of starts?

mheisig · 06-22-2006, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Career Numbers:

Joey Harrington - Average of 186 yards per start. Two more picks than TD's for his career. 68.1 career QB Rating.

David Carr - Average of 180 yards per start. Five more picks than TD's for his career. 73.7 career QB Rating.

Patrick Ramsey - Average of 235 yards per start. Five more TD's than picks for his career. 75.0 career QB Rating.

And yet, Carr and Harrington have each "earned" 30+ more starts than Ramsey...

Ok, I can see your point - stat-wise Ramsey is a little better than Harrington and Carr. You could also chalk that slight difference up to Ramsey be surrounded by generally better personnel than Carr or Harrington.

Even looking at the stats though doesn't really say much about ANY of them. It's like arguing that this turd smells better than that one. All three of them are abysmal.

Like Matty and 12th said, Gibbs nor anyone else on the team is obligated to owe Ramsey anything, and a truly great QB would rise above the challenge. I just watched the Skins vs Bears game from last season and Ramsey was pretty atrocious prior to being pulled. Gibbs was justified in doing that.

I'm not sure why people can't even entertain the possibility that Ramsey is not cut out to be a #1 QB. How many years of mediocracy does it take? Blaming the system or the coach just gets silly after a while. Just because teams like the Texans or Lions (keep in mind these are consistently mismanaged, losing organizations) give their crappy QB more of a chance doesn't mean we should. If anything we should do the exact opposite and try to avoid the same fate as either of those two.

If you have a subpar QB you pull him and put someone else in. Supporting mediocracy for year after year is exactly why the Texans and Lions suck donkey balls, and I'm glad Coach Gibbs is smarter than that.

firstdown · 06-22-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Career Numbers:

Joey Harrington - Average of 186 yards per start. Two more picks than TD's for his career. 68.1 career QB Rating.

David Carr - Average of 180 yards per start. Five more picks than TD's for his career. 73.7 career QB Rating.

Patrick Ramsey - Average of 235 yards per start. Five more TD's than picks for his career. 75.0 career QB Rating.

And yet, Carr and Harrington have each "earned" 30+ more starts than Ramsey...

So you say that Harrington and Carr are not as good as Ramsey but to prove that Ramsey is talented you compare his stat to their's. Ok. So if other team stick with non producing QB's we should too?

STPainmaker · 06-22-2006, 11:38 PM

Bottom line-None of those numbers are definite starting numbers. You may say he is a product of circumstances but we don't live in a vacuum. Nice guy or not we went another way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Career Numbers:

Joey Harrington - Average of 186 yards per start. Two more picks than TD's for his career. 68.1 career QB Rating.

David Carr - Average of 180 yards per start. Five more picks than TD's for his career. 73.7 career QB Rating.

Patrick Ramsey - Average of 235 yards per start. Five more TD's than picks for his career. 75.0 career QB Rating.

And yet, Carr and Harrington have each "earned" 30+ more starts than Ramsey...

12thMan · 06-22-2006, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southpaw

This is the most intelligent comment on this topic. Ramsey is better than the two quarterbacks that were selected before him in the draft, and they've both had three full seasons to mature. Harrington fizzled out, but until last season, he had the full support of the coaching staff. Carr still has the support of his team, and he has yet to prove anything except that he was picked WAY too early in the draft.

Meanwhile, Ramsey was circle jerked in an out of the lineup by Spurrier, and then blackballed by Gibbs. His maturation suffered, and eventually the fans turned on him. My only hope is that Campbell doesn't throw a pick in his first start, otherwise he'll be a bust in the eyes of typical Redskins fans.

I don't think it's fair to say Ramsey was blackballed by Gibbs...how so? Gibbs simply chose and went witht he QB he thought gave the team the best chance at winning. Period. Fair or unfair, that's life in the NFL.

In my opinion, exceptional quaterbacks rise above the circumstances and situations handed to them and still perform. One thing we know for sure, Ramsey had a shot to prove himself. Whether his maturity was stunted by outside circumstances is debatable. But what isn't is that he had his chance, and for sure he's getting another shot in NY.

MTK · 06-22-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I don't think it's fair to say Ramsey was blackballed by Gibbs...how so? Gibbs simply chose and went witht he QB he thought gave the team the best chance at winning. Period. Fair or unfair, that's life in the NFL.

In my opinion, exceptional quaterbacks rise above the circumstances and situations handed to them and still perform. One thing we know for sure, Ramsey had a shot to prove himself. Whether his maturity was stunted by outside circumstances is debatable. But what isn't is that he had his chance, and for sure he's getting another shot in NY.

Some people just don't understand take the fact that Ramsey wasn't Gibbs guy from the start. He didn't owe him anything. Saying that Gibbs 'blackballed' him is just ridiculous and flys in the face of everything that Gibbs is all about.

12thMan · 06-22-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Some people just don't understand take the fact that Ramsey wasn't Gibbs guy from the start. He didn't owe him anything. Saying that Gibbs 'blackballed' him is just ridiculous and flys in the face of everything that Gibbs is all about.

I don't get why, or seemingly, people are so emotionally attached to Ramsey.

06-22-2006, 10:51 AM	#8
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	Re: Ramsey update Yet he's getting beat out by a rookie at the moment and may not even make it through training camp... __________________ "It's not about what you've done, but what's been done for you."

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06-22-2006, 09:33 AM	#1
BrudLee Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE Posts: 3,494	Re: Ramsey update Perhaps we're beginning to learn that sometimes a guy doesn't get a fair shake because he doesn't earn it. There are players in the NFL that aren't nearly as good as Ramsey, but they don't have the expectations that he suffered under. It's a shame because he seems to be a stand-up guy. Unfortunately, the chances he was given weren't successful, often for reasons outside his ability to control. __________________ There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.

Ramsey update

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