Ramsey update

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

This is the most intelligent comment on this topic. Ramsey is better than the two quarterbacks that were selected before him in the draft, and they've both had three full seasons to mature. Harrington fizzled out, but until last season, he had the full support of the coaching staff. Carr still has the support of his team, and he has yet to prove anything except that he was picked WAY too early in the draft.

Meanwhile, Ramsey was circle jerked in an out of the lineup by Spurrier, and then blackballed by Gibbs. His maturation suffered, and eventually the fans turned on him. My only hope is that Campbell doesn't throw a pick in his first start, otherwise he'll be a bust in the eyes of typical Redskins fans.

What proof do you have to back that up?

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by mheisig

What proof do you have to back that up?

Ummmm... which part?

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Ummmm... which part?

The part from your post that I put in gigantic bold text. Let's try again:

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Ramsey is better than the two quarterbacks that were selected before him in the draft

Not trying to be an ass, I'm just honestly curious.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by mheisig

Not trying to be an ass, I'm just honestly curious.

Career Numbers:

Joey Harrington - Average of 186 yards per start. Two more picks than TD's for his career. 68.1 career QB Rating.

David Carr - Average of 180 yards per start. Five more picks than TD's for his career. 73.7 career QB Rating.

Patrick Ramsey - Average of 235 yards per start. Five more TD's than picks for his career. 75.0 career QB Rating.

And yet, Carr and Harrington have each "earned" 30+ more starts than Ramsey...

[cpayne5]

Yet he's getting beat out by a rookie at the moment and may not even make it through training camp...

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Career Numbers:

Joey Harrington - Average of 186 yards per start. Two more picks than TD's for his career. 68.1 career QB Rating.

David Carr - Average of 180 yards per start. Five more picks than TD's for his career. 73.7 career QB Rating.

Patrick Ramsey - Average of 235 yards per start. Five more TD's than picks for his career. 75.0 career QB Rating.

And yet, Carr and Harrington have each "earned" 30+ more starts than Ramsey...

Don't you think the numbers are, in fact, skewed by the difference in number of starts?

[dblanch66]

I don't think Heath Shuler got a fair deal. I'm still pissed about that...

[MonkFan4Life]

Originally Posted by dblanch66

I don't think Heath Shuler got a fair deal. I'm still pissed about that...

RIGHT !!!! Dont forget Gibran Hamdan either ! He was going to be a star !

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Career Numbers:

Joey Harrington - Average of 186 yards per start. Two more picks than TD's for his career. 68.1 career QB Rating.

David Carr - Average of 180 yards per start. Five more picks than TD's for his career. 73.7 career QB Rating.

Patrick Ramsey - Average of 235 yards per start. Five more TD's than picks for his career. 75.0 career QB Rating.

And yet, Carr and Harrington have each "earned" 30+ more starts than Ramsey...

Ok, I can see your point - stat-wise Ramsey is a little better than Harrington and Carr. You could also chalk that slight difference up to Ramsey be surrounded by generally better personnel than Carr or Harrington.

Even looking at the stats though doesn't really say much about ANY of them. It's like arguing that this turd smells better than that one. All three of them are abysmal.

Like Matty and 12th said, Gibbs nor anyone else on the team is obligated to owe Ramsey anything, and a truly great QB would rise above the challenge. I just watched the Skins vs Bears game from last season and Ramsey was pretty atrocious prior to being pulled. Gibbs was justified in doing that.

I'm not sure why people can't even entertain the possibility that Ramsey is not cut out to be a #1 QB. How many years of mediocracy does it take? Blaming the system or the coach just gets silly after a while. Just because teams like the Texans or Lions (keep in mind these are consistently mismanaged, losing organizations) give their crappy QB more of a chance doesn't mean we should. If anything we should do the exact opposite and try to avoid the same fate as either of those two.

If you have a subpar QB you pull him and put someone else in. Supporting mediocracy for year after year is exactly why the Texans and Lions suck donkey balls, and I'm glad Coach Gibbs is smarter than that.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Career Numbers:

Joey Harrington - Average of 186 yards per start. Two more picks than TD's for his career. 68.1 career QB Rating.

David Carr - Average of 180 yards per start. Five more picks than TD's for his career. 73.7 career QB Rating.

Patrick Ramsey - Average of 235 yards per start. Five more TD's than picks for his career. 75.0 career QB Rating.

And yet, Carr and Harrington have each "earned" 30+ more starts than Ramsey...

So you say that Harrington and Carr are not as good as Ramsey but to prove that Ramsey is talented you compare his stat to their's. Ok. So if other team stick with non producing QB's we should too?

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So you say that Harrington and Carr are not as good as Ramsey but to prove that Ramsey is talented you compare his stat to their's. Ok. So if other team stick with non producing QB's we should too?

No, actually he was responding to someone who challenged him to show proof that he is better than Harrington and Carr...

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So you say that Harrington and Carr are not as good as Ramsey but to prove that Ramsey is talented you compare his stat to their's. Ok. So if other team stick with non producing QB's we should too?

I was trying to let this thread die, mainly because I don't feel like debating with a dozen "He's not on the team anymore, so now I hate him" Redskins fans. Again, my only point was Ramsey didn't get as much support as his contemporaries. I agree that he's probably lost the ability to become a #1 quarterback at this point in his career.

And as far as non producing QB's, the Redskins have had one(two if you count Brunells "Pro Bowl worthy" season last year) quarterback who has actually produced in the last twelve seasons...

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

I was trying to let this thread die, mainly because I don't feel like debating with a dozen "He's not on the team anymore, so now I hate him" Redskins fans. Again, my only point was Ramsey didn't get as much support as his contemporaries. I agree that he's probably lost the ability to become a #1 quarterback at this point in his career.

And as far as non producing QB's, the Redskins have had one(two if you count Brunells "Pro Bowl worthy" season last year) quarterback who has actually produced in the last twelve seasons...

There's your first mistake - Ramsey related threads don't die.

See, I just had to come here and post again...it's like a disease.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Again, my only point was Ramsey didn't get as much support as his contemporaries. I agree that he's probably lost the ability to become a #1 quarterback at this point in his career.

Well, I agree he didn't have the greatest support, but i don't really think he "lost" the ability to be a #1 as much as he never had it and just didn't have enough reps to show his true skill level as fast as those other two. He throws deep balls like javelins and that's just not an easy thing to correct at this point in a career.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

I was trying to let this thread die, mainly because I don't feel like debating with a dozen "He's not on the team anymore, so now I hate him" Redskins fans.

To be fair, most of these guys hated Ramsey before left the team. Actually, hated is not the right term, more like thought he wasn't any good. I had thought that the problems he had were correctable, that over time he would develop into a good QB. He always seemed to get off to a slow start then really get the offense moving late in a game (then half the time break your heart with a knuckleheaded INT). For me, the reason I wanted him to take over here was that it never seemed like we were out of games with him in there, the way it did with... some of the other QB's we've had over time. He did move the ball well, just not always in the right direction. It seems we all agree he's a good guy, and we all wish him well, and that's probably where we should quit talking about it to avoid acrimony.