Patten on NFL radio:

[offiss]

Originally Posted by That Guy

Jason Campbell:
0 yards

David Patten:
217 yards 0 tds



Mark Brunell:
3050yds 23tds

Santana Moss:
1483yds 9tds



Best seasons:
Patten: 800yds 7 tds
Moss: 1483yds 9tds



Advantage: Moss (by a mile)

Patten- 3 super bowl ring's, the rest 0, advantage Patten.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by offiss

Patten- 3 super bowl ring's, the rest 0, advantage Patten.

If moss were in NE instead of patten, i bet they wouldn't have missed him at all. there's plenty of luck involved in who ends up on a roster. If patten caught for 1200+ yards last season, i'm sure he'd be all gay for brunell too.

but by your logic, gibbs et al have TONS of rings between them, and they seem to like brunell, and since that agrees with moss, patten is once again the loser.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by That Guy

If moss were in NE instead of patten, i bet they wouldn't have missed him at all. there's plenty of luck involved in who ends up on a roster. If patten caught for 1200+ yards last season, i'm sure he'd be all gay for brunell too.

but by your logic, gibbs et al have TONS of rings between them, and they seem to like brunell, and since that agrees with moss, patten is once again the loser.

Nice. Anytime someone lays a beating on Offiss, I smile.

I don't care what any of the receivers say about any of the QBs on the radio. All I care about is what Gibbs and Saunders think. They're the ones making the cuts, and they're the ones making the calls.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Nice. Anytime someone lays a beating on Offiss, I smile.

I don't care what any of the receivers say about any of the QBs on the radio. All I care about is what Gibbs and Saunders think. They're the ones making the cuts, and they're the ones making the calls.

Well if one is incapable of this feet on his own he might as well grab hold of as many straws as he can from others no matter how futile that responce may be.

The fact is and I will spell it out for the both of you is if luck plays a part in an individuals success than Brunell is first in line, he has the benefit of a miscalculation by Gibbs and a 43 mil mistake, and yes I said a mistake, Gibbs needed Brunell like a truck driver needs hemroids, Gibbs has proven he can win with what I would call below average talent in both Rypien and Williams and he made an all pro out of Schroeder, Theisman was the only real instinctive QB he had in DC, the fact is yes Gibbs can win with Brunell but he recieved a QB who has more ware and tear on him than many QB's his age, the Jags were about to release him because nobody really wanted the guy because the word was he no longer can take a hit so he just dumps the ball at the slightest sign of pressure, sound familar?

The fact is Gibbs has done nothing but sing Campbells praises since he's arrived so yes he does concur with Patten on Campbell.

Please explain how Patten can be a top WR on the elite team in the NFL and join us and disapear? Brunell the wonder QB to many, played about as bad of a season in 2004 that I have ever seen and please spare all the injury conspearacies, he then gets right back on track and does absoltuly nothing for the first 2 games until he realized with 2 minutes to go in dallas that the cowboys decieded to cover Moss with Roy Williams.

Our defense put us in the playoffs, PERIOD, and they did it in spite of his horrific play, did he have some good games along the way? Yes, but even a broken clock is right twice a day, he did nothing more than any other average QB could have done under the circumstances.

Perhaps you missed our stretch run where Brunell played as bad as a QB can play, where we set a playoff record for fewest yards for a winning team in the playoffs against Tampa, Brunell was the reason our defense was running on empty by years end, and they still almost pulled one out against Seattle. Yes Brunells last 3 games resembled most of the games he has played in a Skins uniform, pewtrid, I don't see how anyone can be comfortable with Brunell at the helm for what should be a SB run this season. The problem is regardless of who has said what of Campbell, not Patten, not Gibbs or anyone else really knows for sure how he will respond in a real game so right now our season rests on Brunell.

But there is a light that shines on Brunell or as you would call it LUCK, it's Gibbs desire to make his signing pan out, and 1 Al Saunders, this combination just may be enough to get this team to the SB, yes when it comes to luck lets hear it for Brunell he has the best defensive coor. in the game to keep him in games and now he has the best offensive coor. in the game to get him going.

When we won in 88' Williams job was to not lose the games, that will become Brunells job, just don't lose it.

If moss were in NE instead of patten, I bet they wouldn't have missed him at all. there's plenty of luck involved in who ends up on a roster. If patten caught for 1200+ yards last season, i'm sure he'd be all gay for brunell too.

but by your logic, gibbs et al have TONS of rings between them, and they seem to like brunell, and since that agrees with moss, patten is once again the loser.

But by your logic having Brady throwing to Moss Moss would have doubled his TD's last season, Brady has never had a talent at WR like Moss, and considering what he's accomplished that's a major compliment for Moss he's just that good.

Bottom line anyone who attended the games saw what was going on with Brunell he looked at Moss if he was covered he went immediatly to Cooley and if that wasen't there he threw it away, a third WR regardless of who it was didn't matter, Brunell wasen't going to hold the ball long enough to look for him, and as stated by Aikmen we had WR's open after the first 2 options but by the time Brunell found them they were to far downfield and Brunell didn't have the arm to reach them, kind of what was happening to Patten early on. If Patten wasen't a success before he arrived you would have a case, but he was surrounded by plenty of talent at the WR position in NE and flourished, the problem wasen't Patten it was Brunell, Brady never had a problem finding Patten.

So in closing to say Patten knows nothing about the differnce between a good QB and a lowsey one isn't fair, he's been on the recieving end of many passes from who might go down as the best ever in Brady, and the fact is if Brunell doesn't get us to the SB this season his signing will have been a complete waste of time and money, because theres no way Campbell sits another year, the fact is he shouldn't be sittting this year but this team as a whole is far ahead of him right now, and nobody knows if he can step in like big ben and hit the ground running.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by offiss

Well if one is incapable of this feet on his own he might as well grab hold of as many straws as he can from others no matter how futile that responce may be.

The fact is and I will spell it out for the both of you is if luck plays a part in an individuals success than Brunell is first in line, he has the benefit of a miscalculation by Gibbs and a 43 mil mistake, and yes I said a mistake, Gibbs needed Brunell like a truck driver needs hemroids, Gibbs has proven he can win with what I would call below average talent in both Rypien and Williams and he made an all pro out of Schroeder, Theisman was the only real instinctive QB he had in DC, the fact is yes Gibbs can win with Brunell but he recieved a QB who has more ware and tear on him than many QB's his age, the Jags were about to release him because nobody really wanted the guy because the word was he no longer can take a hit so he just dumps the ball at the slightest sign of pressure, sound familar?

The fact is Gibbs has done nothing but sing Campbells praises since he's arrived so yes he does concur with Patten on Campbell.

Please explain how Patten can be a top WR on the elite team in the NFL and join us and disapear? Brunell the wonder QB to many, played about as bad of a season in 2004 that I have ever seen and please spare all the injury conspearacies, he then gets right back on track and does absoltuly nothing for the first 2 games until he realized with 2 minutes to go in dallas that the cowboys decieded to cover Moss with Roy Williams.

Our defense put us in the playoffs, PERIOD, and they did it in spite of his horrific play, did he have some good games along the way? Yes, but even a broken clock is right twice a day, he did nothing more than any other average QB could have done under the circumstances.

Perhaps you missed our stretch run where Brunell played as bad as a QB can play, where we set a playoff record for fewest yards for a winning team in the playoffs against Tampa, Brunell was the reason our defense was running on empty by years end, and they still almost pulled one out against Seattle. Yes Brunells last 3 games resembled most of the games he has played in a Skins uniform, pewtrid, I don't see how anyone can be comfortable with Brunell at the helm for what should be a SB run this season. The problem is regardless of who has said what of Campbell, not Patten, not Gibbs or anyone else really knows for sure how he will respond in a real game so right now our season rests on Brunell.

But there is a light that shines on Brunell or as you would call it LUCK, it's Gibbs desire to make his signing pan out, and 1 Al Saunders, this combination just may be enough to get this team to the SB, yes when it comes to luck lets hear it for Brunell he has the best defensive coor. in the game to keep him in games and now he has the best offensive coor. in the game to get him going.

When we won in 88' Williams job was to not lose the games, that will become Brunells job, just don't lose it.



But by your logic having Brady throwing to Moss Moss would have doubled his TD's last season, Brady has never had a talent at WR like Moss, and considering what he's accomplished that's a major compliment for Moss he's just that good.

Bottom line anyone who attended the games saw what was going on with Brunell he looked at Moss if he was covered he went immediatly to Cooley and if that wasen't there he threw it away, a third WR regardless of who it was didn't matter, Brunell wasen't going to hold the ball long enough to look for him, and as stated by Aikmen we had WR's open after the first 2 options but by the time Brunell found them they were to far downfield and Brunell didn't have the arm to reach them, kind of what was happening to Patten early on. If Patten wasen't a success before he arrived you would have a case, but he was surrounded by plenty of talent at the WR position in NE and flourished, the problem wasen't Patten it was Brunell, Brady never had a problem finding Patten.

So in closing to say Patten knows nothing about the differnce between a good QB and a lowsey one isn't fair, he's been on the recieving end of many passes from who might go down as the best ever in Brady, and the fact is if Brunell doesn't get us to the SB this season his signing will have been a complete waste of time and money, because theres no way Campbell sits another year, the fact is he shouldn't be sittting this year but this team as a whole is far ahead of him right now, and nobody knows if he can step in like big ben and hit the ground running.

Wait, so Mark Brunell has been a great career passer...because he's lucky? Wha? Tom Brady might be the greatest ever because he's never had anyone to throw to? Patten is a great reciever because he played with Brady? Brunell is terrible because he doesnt make mistakes? Brunell's progressionary reads are bad because Troy Aikman can make an observation pertaining more to the offense in general than Brunell? The Brunell signing is a complete failure if he doesn't win a super bowl? What's next, Dan Marino's a bust? I mean, he never won a super bowl with Miami.

And I think somewhere in there you mention that Gibbs is a great coach, and the fact that he trusts Brunell should be a black mark against him (MB) because Gibbs won SBs with 3 different QBs.

Do you hate quarterbacks or something? Or just Brunell specifically?

This post is illogical, tough to follow, contradiciting and in many cases, downright wrong.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Wait, so Mark Brunell has been a great career passer...because he's lucky? Wha? Tom Brady might be the greatest ever because he's never had anyone to throw to? Patten is a great reciever because he played with Brady? Brunell is terrible because he doesnt make mistakes? Brunell's progressionary reads are bad because Troy Aikman can make an observation pertaining more to the offense in general than Brunell? The Brunell signing is a complete failure if he doesn't win a super bowl? What's next, Dan Marino's a bust? I mean, he never won a super bowl with Miami.

And I think somewhere in there you mention that Gibbs is a great coach, and the fact that he trusts Brunell should be a black mark against him (MB) because Gibbs won SBs with 3 different QBs.

Do you hate quarterbacks or something? Or just Brunell specifically?

This post is illogical, tough to follow, contradiciting and in many cases, downright wrong.

Talk about one giant contradiction.

There is a major difference between a great coach and a great GM, Gibbs still need's, and want's to prove he's the latter.

Brunell was never a great passer persay ala Marino, or Aikmen etc. Brunell was more of a playmaker, the problem with that is once your legs go so does most of your game and that's Brunell in a nut shell. A strong armed pocket passer can survive longer in the NFL if he has the protection he can still get the ball downfield, but if your legs were your primary weopon to create, your finished once they go, bottom line Brunell can't move like he used to, and he wont, and can't take the hit anymore.

And yes I do believe Aikman knows a little about offense and the proper functioning of a QB, as well Aikman is one commentator who is about as fair with his analists as you will get, he alway's gives us unbiased coverage of our games, and that say's a lot from an X-cowboy.

As for Marino, did Marino have the luxory of a top flight defense throughout his career? I think not, so Marino was very unlucky, the fact is if Gibbs had Marino for 10 years both Gibbs and Marino would probably be walking around with 5 rings on thier hand. Brunell had an opporunity to take advantage of maybe the best defense we have ever had over the last 2 years, and did nothing but jump on thier backs and make the defenses burden that much tougher. Let's face it there is a reason Gibbs get's ultra concervative late in the game, and I don't believe it's because he feels he can trust Brunell, Gibbs didn't coach that way his first time around.

Brunells another year older, can Saunders revitalize him for 1 more season, I actually think yes, I also believe we could do much more without Brunell, Saunders help make a stock boy an NFL MVP. Brunell will start off well I do believe but his next big hit will be his last.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by offiss

Talk about one giant contradiction.

There is a major difference between a great coach and a great GM, Gibbs still need's, and want's to prove he's the latter.

Brunell was never a great passer persay ala Marino, or Aikmen etc. Brunell was more of a playmaker, the problem with that is once your legs go so does most of your game and that's Brunell in a nut shell. A strong armed pocket passer can survive longer in the NFL if he has the protection he can still get the ball downfield, but if your legs were your primary weopon to create, your finished once they go, bottom line Brunell can't move like he used to, and he wont, and can't take the hit anymore.

There's a big, big difference between Aikman and Marino. Just like theres a difference between Peyton Manning and Brunell. Brunell's running ability has diminished over time, but his legs are hardly gone. Tire easily, maybe. Gone, no. Ask Dallas. He can break off 25 yard runs any time the defensive line gets upfield. Vick, he's done when his legs go. McNabb will have his game limited. But Brunell, Steve McNair, Trent Green, Rich Gannon these guys are all old, all could run, and all played very well rounded football late in their careers. Both running effectively and passing. Brunell is accurate. Few in the NFL are more accurate. He has a good arm. Stronger than league minimum. There is no great advantage to having an arm stronger than the one he has in the NFL. A strong armed pocket passer will last no longer than a savvy game manager of equal career success. At no point were MB's legs his primary weapon. Vick is the only QB in the NFL who boasts that.

To say that Mark Brunell won't and can't take the hit anymore is downright wrong. If you said that to him, he'd punch you. If you said that to his wife, she'd slap you. And you'd deserve it.

And yes I was talking about one giant contradiction. Not sure what you are talking about though.

Originally Posted by offiss

And yes I do believe Aikman knows a little about offense and the proper functioning of a QB, as well Aikman is one commentator who is about as fair with his analists as you will get, he alway's gives us unbiased coverage of our games, and that say's a lot from an X-cowboy.

Very true. Even in the 35-7 whooping we put on them last year, Aikman still broke down the game accurately giving props where they were due. Don't see how this is relevant, though.

Originally Posted by offiss

As for Marino, did Marino have the luxory of a top flight defense throughout his career? I think not, so Marino was very unlucky, the fact is if Gibbs had Marino for 10 years both Gibbs and Marino would probably be walking around with 5 rings on thier hand. Brunell had an opporunity to take advantage of maybe the best defense we have ever had over the last 2 years, and did nothing but jump on thier backs and make the defenses burden that much tougher. Let's face it there is a reason Gibbs get's ultra concervative late in the game, and I don't believe it's because he feels he can trust Brunell, Gibbs didn't coach that way his first time around.

Brunells another year older, can Saunders revitalize him for 1 more season, I actually think yes, I also believe we could do much more without Brunell, Saunders help make a stock boy an NFL MVP. Brunell will start off well I do believe but his next big hit will be his last.

Wasn't Gibbs always conservative late in the game? You tell me.

For the last time, 2004 is over. He sucked that year. Was probably seriously injured.

MB's next big hit his last? I guess it's possible. Peyton Manning's next big hit could be his last. And Tom Brady's. And McNabbs. God damn, being a QB in the NFL really sucks the big one...

I'll leave you all with this factoid. The last time Mark Brunell and Dan Marino met, Brunell won. By 63 points. In the playoffs. Irrelivant yes, but at least its a pretty cool way to end a rebuttal.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by offiss

The fact is Gibbs has done nothing but sing Campbells praises since he's arrived so yes he does concur with Patten on Campbell.

and he's sung brunell's praises even higher.... you know the best praise that you a head coach can give you? naming you the starter.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by That Guy

and he's sung brunell's praises even higher.... you know the best praise that you a head coach can give you? naming you the starter.

Tell that to Ramsey.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by offiss

Tell that to Ramsey.

he sucked and gibbs chose the better player. ramsey was only named the starter because brunell was playing terribly, not because he himself was lighting it up.