Can We Bench Brunell Now

[EternalEnigma21]

The D is sucking horribly right now. We look like complete dogshit. Our offense does need a fresh start and I'd give it to Campbell right now, but i've never been a brunell supporter. I give him props when he does good, but he's just as inconsistant as ramsey was...

Its time to move on to Campbell... Brunell should go sign a one day contract with Jacksonville and retire in the community he cares about... where his heart is according to him...

Not making excuses for our defense, because we should've probably shut them out, but our offense was capable of keeping the game out of reach, but didn't. Most of that can be attributed to brunell....

[Mc2guy]

Brunell has average stats due ONLY to the fact that he has stellar playmakers catching the ball. Watching other games I am amazed at how well even average QBs are hitting receivers over the middle in stride, even against decent defenses. We don't see that because our QB can't do it.

It amazes me that there are some of you who just watched the same game that I did and don't look at your QB as a major source of problems. I'm dumfounded that there are still some of you defending Brunell. He is incapable of stretching the field vertically and defeneses know that...why do you think the Titans were able to key in on teh short passes and screens today? Because they knew they didn't have to worry about the deeper routes. Then, when down big and desparate, we tried to throw down the field, the results of which were self evident.

Why on god's green earth would we wait until next year to play Campbell. As I said last week, this season is done for us and the sooner to start making some pragmatic personnel decisions, the better this team can be in the future. Starting Campbell now means has two advantages. One, you find out if he has the IT factor necessary to be a pro QB and if he doesn't, well at least you know and you find out in a season that doesn't mean much. Second, finding out now means we can make smart decisions in Free Agency. If in fact it is determined that JC is not "The Man", for the future, why waste next year finding out? Waiting until next year to see if JC can play has NO BENEFIT to the team. If you can't see that, then you are blind to the reality that is slapping us all in the face.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mc2guy

Brunell has average stats due ONLY to the fact that he has stellar playmakers catching the ball. Watching other games I am amazed at how well even average QBs are hitting receivers over the middle in stride, even against decent defenses. We don't see that because our QB can't do it.

It amazes me that there are some of you who just watched the same game that I did and don't look at your QB as a major source of problems. I'm dumfounded that there are still some of you defending Brunell. He is incapable of stretching the field vertically and defeneses know that...why do you think the Titans were able to key in on teh short passes and screens today? Because they knew they didn't have to worry about the deeper routes. Then, when down big and desparate, we tried to throw down the field, the results of which were self evident.

Why on god's green earth would we wait until next year to play Campbell. As I said last week, this season is done for us and the sooner to start making some pragmatic personnel decisions, the better this team can be in the future. Starting Campbell now means has two advantages. One, you find out if he has the IT factor necessary to be a pro QB and if he doesn't, well at least you know and you find out in a season that doesn't mean much. Second, finding out now means we can make smart decisions in Free Agency. If in fact it is determined that JC is not "The Man", for the future, why waste next year finding out? Waiting until next year to see if JC can play has NO BENEFIT to the team. If you can't see that, then you are blind to the reality that is slapping us all in the face.

Name me one quarterback in the league that has better stats, but worse weapons than Brunell does. Get over this perception that OUR guys are better than anyone elses because they are OUR guys. Randle El is a pretty average player and Lloyd isn't quite that good. They fit OUR system, which is a YAC based system. Moss does an excellent job after the catch, but dont crap on Brunell for consistently getting the ball to him in space.

If I remember correctly, Brunell hit Lloyd today for a 51 yard completion. So there goes that no deep ball arguement.

Season is done, eh? I didn't know it was January already. The reason you stay with Brunell is because he gives you the best chance to win. I know that. Joe Gibbs knows that. Al Saunders knows that. You play Campbell only when winning now takes a back seat to winning in the future. I don't think that point has been reached, and I hope no one else does. That would be a very closed minded, reactionary view of a poorly played game.

Although there is no comparision between Brunell and Palmer or McNabb, you are missing my point. What would you say to an Eagle fan who said that he would renounce his fanship if they didnt bench McNabb for such a horrible performance. I would probably start laughing at them. Which is what I would do now if the situation wasn't so dire here.

[Mc2guy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Name me one quarterback in the league that has better stats, but worse weapons than Brunell does. Get over this perception that OUR guys are better than anyone elses because they are OUR guys. Randle El is a pretty average player and Lloyd isn't quite that good. They fit OUR system, which is a YAC based system. Moss does an excellent job after the catch, but dont crap on Brunell for consistently getting the ball to him in space.

If I remember correctly, Brunell hit Lloyd today for a 51 yard completion. So there goes that no deep ball arguement.

Season is done, eh? I didn't know it was January already. The reason you stay with Brunell is because he gives you the best chance to win. I know that. Joe Gibbs knows that. Al Saunders knows that. You play Campbell only when winning now takes a back seat to winning in the future. I don't think that point has been reached, and I hope no one else does. That would be a very closed minded, reactionary view of a poorly played game.

Although there is no comparision between Brunell and Palmer or McNabb, you are missing my point. What would you say to an Eagle fan who said that he would renounce his fanship if they didnt bench McNabb for such a horrible performance. I would probably start laughing at them. Which is what I would do now if the situation wasn't so dire here.

You're arguement about the lloyd pass has no merit. That was a hail mary pass if I have ever seen one.

I disagree that this season is not over. I am not being 'reactionary' I am simply looking at the facts. We are 2-4 due to poor play across the board with no quick fixes in sight. Furthermore we are facing a brutal schedule during the remaining 10 games. Sticking with Brunell because hes your "best" option to win is shortsighted. First I disagree that he's our best option to win now...he's is a significant part of our offensive problems IMHO. Second, what makes you believe Brunell is going to be able to win 8 of the next 10, which is what it will take for us to have a shot at the Wildcard?

Last, I have no idea what you are talking about with your renouncing fanship reference...I am a diehard fan...have been for 25 years since I was old enough to understand what I was watching. I'm not jumping ship...I will be here for the long haul, and I want whats best for the team. It is arrogant to believe your position makes you somehow more of a fan.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Name me one quarterback in the league that has better stats, but worse weapons than Brunell does. Get over this perception that OUR guys are better than anyone elses because they are OUR guys.

I strongly disagree with the idea that Brunell does not have a lot of weapons. First of all, I tend to think he's playing behind an above-average (not great, but not average) offensive line. Second, there are a ton of QBs who would love to have Portis in the backfield, Moss and Cooley as the #1 and #2 receivers, and ARE and Lloyd as the #3 and #4 receivers.

I also disagree with your reference to Brunell's stats as a great indication of how good he is. Brunell's stats as also inflated because, as you note, this is a YAC-based offense; Brunell throws a 5 yard hitch route, Moss runs 50 yards, and Brunell gets credit for a 55 yard pass play. How does Brunell get credit for WRs' RAC and Portis throwing great blocks to get Moss free?

I don't understand the whole love-hate Brunell thing; either people adore the guy or the hate him. I tend to think that he's not as good as many think and not as bad as many others think.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I strongly disagree with the idea that Brunell does not have a lot of targets. First of all, I tend to think he's playing behind an above-average (not great, but not average) offensive line. Second, there are a ton of QBs who would love to have Portis in the backfield, Moss and Cooley as the #1 and #2 receivers, and ARE and Lloyd as the #3 and #4 receivers.

I also disagree with your reference to Brunell's stats as a great indication of how good he is. Brunell's stats as also inflated because, as you note, this is a YAC-based offense; Brunell throws a 5 yard hitch route, Moss runs 50 yards, and Brunell gets credit for a 55 yard pass play. Brunell is an average QB; he takes plays that are available to him and cannot make plays himself. Brunell is just one among many other problems, but you have to at least recognize that he is A problem.

I don't understand the whole love-hate Brunell thing; either people adore the guy or the hate him. I tend to think that he's not as good as many think and not as bad as many others think.

Yeah he is average, only real positive is he is a vet, so he wont make that many costly turnovers in the middle of a game. I don't want Brunell in bc I am thinking about what is best for the team in the Long Run.

And guys guess what? What if Campbell turns out to be not that good?? Then wtf do we do? That is why he need atleast 6-7 games this year to get him up to NFL pace, otherwise we need to start looking for a QB again.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Yeah he is average, only real positive is he is a vet, so he wont make that many costly turnovers in the middle of a game. I don't want Brunell in bc I am thinking about what is best for the team in the Long Run.

And guys guess what? What if Campbell turns out to be not that good?? Then wtf do we do? That is why he need atleast 6-7 games this year to get him up to NFL pace, otherwise we need to start looking for a QB again.

Brilliant point. Unfortunately, Gibbs will take as long as he can to figure that out. I still say there's a bit of pride on the line for Gibbs who's bound and determined to prove he was right about Brunell. He was right for the better part of the 2005 season. But his favorite beverage is tipped on its end ... and there's nothing left but drips.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Name me one quarterback in the league that has better stats, but worse weapons than Brunell does. Get over this perception that OUR guys are better than anyone elses because they are OUR guys. Randle El is a pretty average player and Lloyd isn't quite that good. They fit OUR system, which is a YAC based system. Moss does an excellent job after the catch, but dont crap on Brunell for consistently getting the ball to him in space.

If I remember correctly, Brunell hit Lloyd today for a 51 yard completion. So there goes that no deep ball arguement.

Season is done, eh? I didn't know it was January already. The reason you stay with Brunell is because he gives you the best chance to win. I know that. Joe Gibbs knows that. Al Saunders knows that. You play Campbell only when winning now takes a back seat to winning in the future. I don't think that point has been reached, and I hope no one else does. That would be a very closed minded, reactionary view of a poorly played game.

Although there is no comparision between Brunell and Palmer or McNabb, you are missing my point. What would you say to an Eagle fan who said that he would renounce his fanship if they didnt bench McNabb for such a horrible performance. I would probably start laughing at them. Which is what I would do now if the situation wasn't so dire here.

Which stat would you like?
David Carr, Donovan McNabb, Rex Grossman, and Phillip Rivers all have higher QB Ratings than Mark Brunell and all of them have worse weapons. The others with higher ratings? Bulger, the Mannings, and Brees.

How about TD's? Pretty similar list with more guys ahead: McNabb, Grossman, Brady, Leftwich, Favre, Carr, Alex Smith, Chad Pennington, Charlie Frye, Jon Kitna and even Damon Huard. Those are just the ones who I think have worse weapons.

He's even thrown as many pick as the "grossly overrated" (according to this board) Michael Vick. I don't wanna hear about the greatness of a guy who only throws deep when it looks the game has been lost.

I do agree that more of the blame should go to the defense, but you're not gonna convince me that making 1 play as the QB in the NFL is enough to win a football game.

Oh yeah, he's 12th in the league in yards and that's mostly cause of the wr's running after catch.

Also, these may not still be accurate because this was before these games have been added to the stats, but his rating will come down, he'll have 1 more TD and 1 more pick, so it won't really be much different otherwise.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Name me one quarterback in the league that has better stats, but worse weapons than Brunell does.

The reason you stay with Brunell is because he gives you the best chance to win. I know that. Joe Gibbs knows that. Al Saunders knows that.

Just one quarterback? That would be McNabb. 107 QB rating, 11 TDs, 1 pick with over 1600 yards passing. That's with no running game, Donte Stallworth who's been out for the past two games, somebody named Reggie Brown, and Brian Westbrook who's also been banged up this year.

As for Brunell giving us the best chance to win ... well, reasonable people can disagree. But we don't know what Al Saunders thinks. He has absolutely zero input on who gets to the field and takes snaps.

Brunell is not solely to blame. But I do believe that when the team is struggling, you makes changes where you can. Right now, there's nothing you can do with the defense. They are what they are. Brunell is not managing the game, he's been ineffective, and that did not start this season. Check out his stats after the injury he took to the knee in the second Giants game last season.

Since this defense will likely stay bad throughout the year, so the offense must begin to start clicking. You have to play Campbell sooner or later.

[jdlea]

You don't know what Campbell's gonna be, but you do know what Brunell is and, more importantly, what he isn't. This team isn't winning with him in. They're 2 and 4, I don't buy that Campbell couldn't have beaten the Texans, so they might be 1 game worse, but what would be the difference? If you don't think this season is over, then (like I said in another thread) you have my permission to throw this in my face when they make the playoffs. When that happens I'll say "You were right and I was wrong." Until that happens, I'm gonna go with my knowledge of football and realize that they have very little shot at making the playoffs.

For everyone who believes the season isn't over, please tell me which 8 games they're going to win:

Colts
Cowboys
Eagles
Bucs
Panthers
Falcons
Eagles
Saints
Rams
Giants

Just tell which 8 they'll win. And I really don't wanna hear about winning 5 straight last season cause they played defense then.

[Mc2guy]

Originally Posted by jdlea

You don't know what Campbell's gonna be, but you do know what Brunell is and, more importantly, what he isn't. This team isn't winning with him in. They're 2 and 4, I don't buy that Campbell couldn't have beaten the Texans, so they might be 1 game worse, but what would be the difference? If you don't think this season is over, then (like I said in another thread) you have my permission to throw this in my face when they make the playoffs. When that happens I'll say "You were right and I was wrong." Until that happens, I'm gonna go with my knowledge of football and realize that they have very little shot at making the playoffs.

For everyone who believes the season isn't over, please tell me which 8 games they're going to win:

Colts
Cowboys
Eagles
Bucs
Panthers
Falcons
Eagles
Saints
Rams
Giants

Just tell which 8 they'll win. And I really don't wanna hear about winning 5 straight last season cause they played defense then.

We'll said, couldn't agree more.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by jdlea

You don't know what Campbell's gonna be, but you do know what Brunell is and, more importantly, what he isn't. This team isn't winning with him in. They're 2 and 4, I don't buy that Campbell couldn't have beaten the Texans, so they might be 1 game worse, but what would be the difference? If you don't think this season is over, then (like I said in another thread) you have my permission to throw this in my face when they make the playoffs. When that happens I'll say "You were right and I was wrong." Until that happens, I'm gonna go with my knowledge of football and realize that they have very little shot at making the playoffs.

For everyone who believes the season isn't over, please tell me which 8 games they're going to win:

Colts
Cowboys
Eagles
Bucs
Panthers
Falcons
Eagles
Saints
Rams
Giants

Just tell which 8 they'll win. And I really don't wanna hear about winning 5 straight last season cause they played defense then.

Bump