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[dmek25]

i agree frplg, but... dont we have enough problems in the good old U.S.A to solve first? lets help ourselves before lending our hands to others

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i agree frplg, but... dont we have enough problems in the good old U.S.A to solve first? lets help ourselves before lending our hands to others

I second that totally. I hate our political system. It doesn't work. There is a reason that when we are so called "building" these democracies we don't epouse our system. Our system is dysfunctional. It prevents the will of the majority from being the rule and lets the loudest few rule. And it has nothing to do with democrats and repiblicans. Blaming them is like blaming the Capitals for hockey sucking. It is everything.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I second that totally. I hate our political system. It doesn't work. There is a reason that when we are so called "building" these democracies we don't epouse our system. Our system is dysfunctional. It prevents the will of the majority from being the rule and lets the loudest few rule. And it has nothing to do with democrats and repiblicans. Blaming them is like blaming the Capitals for hockey sucking. It is everything.

1) Tell me a better Government... and explain why.

2) I agree, it's wrong to impose government on a people... but is it wrong to profide relief for a failing one? It raises some serious morality issues when talking about imposing ones culuture on another one. One example is (sorry for the crudeness) female circumcision is widely considered a terrible inhumane practice by most of the western world, however in several countries it's commonly pracited and considered a moral thing to do. Do we have the right to impose our beliefs on other cultures. I think it parallels your point in a way.

3) Do you really wan't the majority to rule. Look around you, seriously. Go to a city and poll people on what they think is good policy. It's not pretty. That's why I like our system. It isn't really a democracy at all. It's really a polyarchy... but I won't get into that. The problem is $. We need to get money out of politics in order for the greed to get out of our policy makers hands. If you've got one issue which is right, and then another with a free dollar in your pocket if you vote for it... that clouds the judgement of anyone. Lets get money out of politics... and that starts with electing John McCain president. He cuts the pork that's attatched to so many bills... He's trying to rid the money involved and that's the direction this country needs to go in.

If you want to know how bad some pork is... look at the emergency war spending bill and you'll be baffled at the amount of illegitimate crap is attatched to it. But since it's an emergency bill, people have to vote for it... no matter how much crap that is attached. It sucks.

[Lady Brave]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

2) I agree, it's wrong to impose government on a people... but is it wrong to profide relief for a failing one? It raises some serious morality issues when talking about imposing ones culuture on another one. One example is (sorry for the crudeness) female circumcision is widely considered a terrible inhumane practice by most of the western world, however in several countries it's commonly pracited and considered a moral thing to do. Do we have the right to impose our beliefs on other cultures. I think it parallels your point in a way.

A moral thing to do - by men.

What if it was a matriarchal society that decided it was a moral thing to castrate every male over the age of 18? You guys would be signin up left and right to impose the belief that you should keep your gonads.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

A moral thing to do - by men.

What if it was a matriarchal society that decided it was a moral thing to castrate every male over the age of 18? You guys would be signin up left and right to impose the belief that you should keep your gonads.

I don't dis-agree with you, I think it's absurd... I really do.. I'm not some crazy guy that supports this.



But many people (including women) are not opposed to it and consider it a very important part of their culture. Is it right for us to judge them based on our societal standards? Would it be right for us to come from over-sea's and say... no... no you can't... its wrong... when clearly we're two different worlds... two different societies.... This is an extreme case, and hence the reason I brought it up, because it raises the moral questions of our responsibilites to influence the world abroad.

Where do we draw the line and say... Sorry you can't do that. We may think it's the right thing to go over and free these people. But at what cost? If we have muslim extremist trying to blow up our NFL stadiums mabye it's not our place.

We just have to realize imposing our belief and culture on another one comes at a huge price... and if you ask the victims of 911... they may want to institute a policy change.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

1) Tell me a better Government... and explain why.

Some would argue that a parliamentary system likes the Brits have is more representitive than our presidential system. Even with the foresight of our forefathers the presidential system is often devolved into a psedo-monarch.

In addition our dogged refusal(probably just an inability) as a nation to move beyond a 2 party system really leaves us with no where to go. It is always us versus them in the political world which I believe prevents reasoned and most likely successful solutions to our problems from having a real chance.

I'm not socialist or anything I just think the mechanics of our government aren't very good. It is a daunting task to fix though. The US could do it though. Probably the only country who could.

Maybe it just needs tweaks but who can look at our government and says it is totally working for us? We have problems every where we turn. Real problems. And Washington has no solutions really. I guess I am a pessimist with our government right now.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Some would argue that a parliamentary system likes the Brits have is more representitive than our presidential system. Even with the foresight of our forefathers the presidential system is often devolved into a psedo-monarch.

In addition our dogged refusal(probably just an inability) as a nation to move beyond a 2 party system really leaves us with no where to go. It is always us versus them in the political world which I believe prevents reasoned and most likely successful solutions to our problems from having a real chance.

I'm not socialist or anything I just think the mechanics of our government aren't very good. It is a daunting task to fix though. The US could do it though. Probably the only country who could.

Maybe it just needs tweaks but who can look at our government and says it is totally working for us? We have problems every where we turn. Real problems. And Washington has no solutions really. I guess I am a pessimist with our government right now.

No, I totally agree we can't settle for what we've got. Any government plagued by corruption and greed will not work.

In essence, our problem isn't in design, it's in the components of the design. We need to eliminate the corruption that is taking place. We're based on cash money... and that's a problem. Scandals involving refrigerators of money is more commonplace than ever, and someone has to institute legislation to put it to an end. Who you think that will be is up to you, but look at Mr. McCains record on eliminating such cases before you vote.

[RobH4413]

I apologize for going political on thewarpath... but seeing as it was already in an off-topic forum, and politics was already being discussed, I deemed it an appropriate response.

[Lady Brave]

I understand what you're saying and the point you're trying to make overall, but I have read stories about these women and not one of them thought it was a good thing to have their you know what removed. They felt violated and mutilated. They did not feel they were fulfilling some higher calling. The sole purpose within that particular culture is that those men want to suppress a woman's sexual desire. They believe it will keep women from being promiscuous, etc.

I really was only poking fun at that particular example. It's the same thing for a man. It's one of those things that you just don't want to think about.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

I understand what you're saying and the point you're trying to make overall, but I have read stories about these women and not one of them thought it was a good thing to have their you know what removed. They felt violated and mutilated. They did not feel they were fulfilling some higher calling. The sole purpose within that particular culture is that those men want to suppress a woman's sexual desire. They believe it will keep women from being promiscuous, etc.

I really was only poking fun at that particular example. It's the same thing for a man. It's one of those things that you just don't want to think about.

I agree whole-heartedly... But my point was that we have to be very very carefull where we impose our beliefs.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Probably a terrible example. My only point is that, of course there are some cases where it's clearly a morally wrong thing thats going on. But the ends don't neccessarily justify the means in all cases and we should learn from any mistakes we have made. I hope that through globilization, and the spread of education throughout the world we can all reach a common ground on such issues such as moral responsibility. Our #1 goal as a country should be to educate the rest of the world. New technology has created a whole new realm of possibilities. I know the world may never "get along" and that an image of everyone holding hands and singing kum-bye-ya is unrealistic. But accepting ignorance is untolerable. We can't go on repeating the mistakes of the past. For every Muslim kid that see's our bombs being dropped, we have a new terrorist. For every Muslim kid that learns about different cultures, and accepting the world around him, we have an ally.

Yes we are a super-power and with that comes incredible responsibility, but at what cost. Our international leverage has become increasingly suspect, and with good reason. Flawed foreign policy, coupled by seemingly insensitive action has caused an uproar in the middle east. I don't consider myself either a democrat or a republican but I think we can both agree that we've got to do something different, and increased focus on globilization and education IMO is the best answer.