QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Yes. And I do have to say this for anyone who is a Brunell apologist. His stats look fine, but I would have to say that when a majority including: fans, sport writers, players and more say that he's not getting the job done, you'd tend to think that was true.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Yes. And I do have to say this for anyone who is a Brunell apologist. His stats look fine, but I would have to say that when a majority including: fans, sport writers, players and more say that he's not getting the job done, you'd tend to think that was true.

what stats, his completion ratio??

the stats bubbling up by the Brunell apologists are *very* selective. it's not hard to complete passes when they're deep behind the line of schrimmage, and last time i checked "Touchdowns" was also a stat. why aren't those ever mentioned by the apologists? how bout first downs?

another stat not mentioned by them is YAC, they'll state Brunell's yards sure, but completely discount how much of those were by the receiver.

there's a reason why Moss got into the pro-bowl last year, and his QB didn't.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by illdefined

what stats, his completion ratio??

the stats bubbling up by the Brunell apologists are *very* selective. it's not hard to NOT complete passes when they're deep behind the line of schrimmage, and last time i checked "Touchdowns" was also a stat. why aren't those ever mentioned by the apologists? how bout first downs?

another stat not mentioned by them is YAC, they'll state Brunell's yards sure, but completely discount how much of those were by the receiver.

there's a reason why Moss got into the pro-bowl last year, and his QB didn't.

I'll give you Touchdowns. This offense has scored 14 TDs thus far and has rushed for more TDs than any team save San Diego.

It's stupid to seperate passing TDs from rushing TDs since if the team gets into the endzone, the QB has done his job. Likewise, a passing TD shouldnt take away from a RBs accomplishments. I think the NFL should use total TD's in their QB rating stat or there will continue to be an extra varible in it.

Anyway, we are in the top 10 in scoring offense anyway (7th in efficiency), so I fail to see what you are trying to say in this arguement.

The reason why you don't ever get first downs is because those stats arent easily accessable. But first downs are a big part of football outsider's DVOA rankings (something I really buy into if you follow my posts), in which we are 7th in the NFL through the first 7 weeks.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2006 and 2005

As far as YAC goes, we play in a YAC based offense. The arguement of the WRs collecting yards for the QBs statsheet directly contradicts the complaint of check downs being a negative play. We do have a YAC based offense. Whether Brunell or Campbell or Collins plays, WRs will get YAC for us. So unless you also want the offense changed with the QB, its seems pretty moot to trash MB's statline because of the offensive system he's in.

The efficiency ratings above do account for that stuff though.

The reason why Moss got into the Pro Bowl and Brunell didn't is simply because Michael Vick did get in following a disappointing year. Moss probably wouldn't have made it with Ramsey at QB...but then again I guess it's a completely useless arguement since the offense is new this year.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'll give you Touchdowns. This offense has scored 14 TDs thus far and has rushed for more TDs than any team save San Diego.

It's stupid to seperate passing TDs from rushing TDs since if the team gets into the endzone, the QB has done his job. Likewise, a passing TD shouldnt take away from a RBs accomplishments. I think the NFL should use total TD's in their QB rating stat or there will continue to be an extra varible in it.

clever way of making our offense seem awesome, but i agree with you in that rushing TDs are just as important. a real offense is both. how do we fare in combined TDs?

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Anyway, we are in the top 10 in scoring offense anyway (7th in efficiency), so I fail to see what you are trying to say in this arguement.

again, what's 'efficiency'? sounds fishy for 'completion ratio'

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The reason why you don't ever get first downs is because those stats arent easily accessable. But first downs are a big part of football outsider's DVOA rankings (something I really buy into if you follow my posts), in which we are 7th in the NFL through the first 7 weeks.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2006 and 2005

As far as YAC goes, we play in a YAC based offense. The arguement of the WRs collecting yards for the QBs statsheet directly contradicts the complaint of check downs being a negative play. We do have a YAC based offense. Whether Brunell or Campbell or Collins plays, WRs will get YAC for us. So unless you also want the offense changed with the QB, its seems pretty moot to trash MB's statline because of the offensive system he's in.

The efficiency ratings above do account for that stuff though.

The reason why Moss got into the Pro Bowl and Brunell didn't is simply because Michael Vick did get in following a disappointing year. Moss probably wouldn't have made it with Ramsey at QB...but then again I guess it's a completely useless arguement since the offense is new this year.

thanks for the link. yes, i'm well aware we have a YAC based offense. god knows. it puts the onus on the WR and not the QB, thats the reason Brunell wasn't a serious pro-bowl consideration.

i consider expecting YAC to get us a first down on 3rd and long an extremely bad offensive strategy (especially when the defense knows its coming and encourages it) as do most of the fans, and published NFL pundits and commentators everywhere. don't you wonder WHY our offense is YAC based? it wasn't a staple of Gibbs era offense, it seems like an offense directly tailored to the limitations of our starting QB.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by illdefined

clever way of making our offense seem awesome, but i agree with you in that rushing TDs are just as important. a real offense is both. how do we fare in combined TDs?



again, what's 'efficiency'? sounds fishy for 'completion ratio'



thanks for the link. yes, i'm well aware we have a YAC based offense. god knows. it puts the onus on the WR and not the QB, thats the reason Brunell wasn't a serious pro-bowl consideration.

i consider expecting YAC to get us a first down on 3rd and long an extremely bad offensive strategy (especially when the defense knows its coming and encourages it) as do most of the fans, and published NFL pundits and commentators everywhere. don't you wonder WHY our offense is YAC based? it wasn't a staple of Gibbs era offense, it seems like an offense directly tailored to the limitations of our starting QB.

Our scoring offense is 10th in the NFL. Not bad, but you have teams like Dallas above us, and look at their efficiency rating. It's not even close. In a sport where points are scored 7 at a time, its tough to use total points at this point in the season to evaluate an offense. But we have scored 14 TDs through 7 games, and that I assume is good for league average, at least, despite some hard luck.