Vince Young - Offensive Rookie of the Year

[jsarno]

Wow, I guess I am the only one here that actually saw him for what he was as a QB, below average.
Jones-Drew / Bush should have been the 1-2 in no particular order, with Colston in the mix as well.
I'm just not buying this Vince Young bandwagon thing...in a couple years we will all be talking about how overrated he is, just Like how overrated Vick is. The kid needs to learn how to be a QB. 51.7% comp is HORRIBLE. 158.9 yards a game he threw for (not including the first 2 games of the season since he didn't play in significant action.)
His legs definitely helped them win games, over 500 yards...but not enough to warrent the award in my opinion.

[Redskin]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Wow, I guess I am the only one here that actually saw him for what he was as a QB, below average.
Jones-Drew / Bush should have been the 1-2 in no particular order, with Colston in the mix as well.
I'm just not buying this Vince Young bandwagon thing...in a couple years we will all be talking about how overrated he is, just Like how overrated Vick is. The kid needs to learn how to be a QB. 51.7% comp is HORRIBLE. 158.9 yards a game he threw for (not including the first 2 games of the season since he didn't play in significant action.)
His legs definitely helped them win games, over 500 yards...but not enough to warrent the award in my opinion.

Im with you on this I do not feel VY will flourish as you guys predict in the NFL. If you ask me special teams and defense won most of the titans games (think Giants game too, undeserving stats for VY). VY is the definition of overated, Colsten had a much more devestating impact then VY did, the man was sick.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Redskin

Im with you on this I do not feel VY will flourish as you guys predict in the NFL. If you ask me special teams and defense won most of the titans games (think Giants game too, undeserving stats for VY). VY is the definition of overated, Colsten had a much more devestating impact then VY did, the man was sick.

Good, glad to see I am not the only one.

[Crat92]

Originally Posted by Redskin

Im with you on this I do not feel VY will flourish as you guys predict in the NFL. If you ask me special teams and defense won most of the titans games (think Giants game too, undeserving stats for VY). VY is the definition of overated, Colsten had a much more devestating impact then VY did, the man was sick.

Are you SERIOUS? You can't be! Colston had a good year I'll give you that. Vince Young did more with less than any other rookie. You want the definition of overrated? Okay, how about Matt Lienart?! He had two pro bowl recievers and still couldn't get it done! Maybe if he would have done what VY did, Dennis Green would still have a job. Overrated please............stop hangin out with Merrill Hodge!

[itvnetop]

Originally Posted by Crat92

Are you SERIOUS? You can't be! Colston had a good year I'll give you that. Vince Young did more with less than any other rookie. You want the definition of overrated? Okay, how about Matt Lienart?! He had two pro bowl recievers and still couldn't get it done! Maybe if he would have done what VY did, Dennis Green would still have a job. Overrated please............stop hangin out with Merrill Hodge!

Both players are going to be special. Without VY, the Titans are fighting for a top 3 pick. Remember, they lost their first three or four games with Volek starting. Their D and special teams definitely picked it up, but who else does Young have on that offense? Henry played pretty good, but he's not the reason the entire team has played over their heads. This guy wills his team to wins. If Chow stays, watch VY get better as a passer too.

Leinart suffered from what we call a lack of an offensive line. Is it a coincidence Edge had such a terrible year? You get an o-line and it opens up the running game, which in turn will keep d's honest for ML to throw. He's got the goods too... wait until he gets a real offensive coach too (Chow perhaps?).

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Crat92

Are you SERIOUS? You can't be! Colston had a good year I'll give you that. Vince Young did more with less than any other rookie. You want the definition of overrated? Okay, how about Matt Lienart?! He had two pro bowl recievers and still couldn't get it done! Maybe if he would have done what VY did, Dennis Green would still have a job. Overrated please............stop hangin out with Merrill Hodge!

Leinart:
56.6% comp, 2542 yards passing, 11 pass tds, 12 ints. (11 full games)
Young:
51.7% comp, 2199 yards passing, 12 pass tds, 13 ints. (14 full games)

Leinart beats Young by 70+ passing yards a game, about .15 passing td's per game, and about 5% better comp %. Young got the Offensive ROY, and Leinart wasn't even an after thought...so who is overrated again??????

I'm not saying Leinart is a stud, but if you're going to call someone overrated, get your stats in order. If you call Leinart overrated, you must call Young overrated.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Leinart:
56.6% comp, 2542 yards passing, 11 pass tds, 12 ints. (11 full games)
Young:
51.7% comp, 2199 yards passing, 12 pass tds, 13 ints. (14 full games)

Leinart beats Young by 70+ passing yards a game, about .15 passing td's per game, and about 5% better comp %. Young got the Offensive ROY, and Leinart wasn't even an after thought...so who is overrated again??????

I'm not saying Leinart is a stud, but if you're going to call someone overrated, get your stats in order. If you call Leinart overrated, you must call Young overrated.

But I think Crat's argument is that Young did more with less.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

But I think Crat's argument is that Young did more with less.

T-E-A-M...it's all about team. Tennessee has more in my opinion...just cause Arizona has a couple good receivers doesn't mean they have more. Leinart ran for his life on every play.

ps- Edge James SUCKED this year...no running game = losses. Tennessee had a running game.

[Crat92]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

But I think Crat's argument is that Young did more with less.

Thank you TAFKAS. Exactly my point. I don't think those numbers Lienart put produced many victories, do you? It's about winning! Lienart didn't, Young did. Bottom line!

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Crat92

Thank you TAFKAS. Exactly my point. I don't think those numbers Lienart put produced many victories, do you? It's about winning! Lienart didn't, Young did. Bottom line!

Those numbers prove that if one is overrated, the other is too.

Nice to know that everyone thinks 1 guy makes the difference between an 8 win team and a 5 win team. Might as well not even field that many players since 1 player makes the difference for 3 wins. So if I had 4 vince youngs, I'd win 12 games...sweeeet.

Again, it's a TEAM effort.
Don't worry, I am positive that the rose colored glasses will come off with Young eventually...I was right about soooo many like him in the past, and I am right now. I know that sounds arrogant, but you guys aren't looking at the big picture.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

But I think Crat's argument is that Young did more with less.

And that's why Vince Young won hands down, he did more with less. Stack the stats as high as you want, no one had the impact on their team Vince Young had on his team.

I'll go a step further, remove LT and Brees from the equation for a minute, you could make a helluva argument for Young as MVP this year.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Leinart:
56.6% comp, 2542 yards passing, 11 pass tds, 12 ints. (11 full games)
Young:
51.7% comp, 2199 yards passing, 12 pass tds, 13 ints. (14 full games)

Leinart beats Young by 70+ passing yards a game, about .15 passing td's per game, and about 5% better comp %. Young got the Offensive ROY, and Leinart wasn't even an after thought...so who is overrated again??????

I'm not saying Leinart is a stud, but if you're going to call someone overrated, get your stats in order. If you call Leinart overrated, you must call Young overrated.

I'm sorry I have to jump in here.
jsarno - the stats you carefully picked are just passing stats. In the NFL, QB's are allowed to run - one of Young's finest moment was a 39-yard TD run in overtime to beat Houston. As much as you do not like it, it is true Qb's can run.
Vince ran the ball 83 times for 553 yards and 7 TD's. He averaged 6.7 yards a carry. Had a grand total of 19 TD's as compared to Leinarts 13 total TD's and Bush's 8.
You might be of the school of QB's should only be drop back passers and that is the only way to rate them. But there is so much more than passing, like leadership, reading defenses, calling audibles and making the decision to take off and RUN THE BALL.
Young took over a 0-3 team that was being lead by a veteran superbowl QB Kerry Collins. Vince Young came in at a desperate time for a losing team at the most important postion QB and turned the team around. Lead them to 8 wins. Nuff said.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I'm sorry I have to jump in here.
jsarno - the stats you carefully picked are just passing stats. In the NFL, QB's are allowed to run - one of Young's finest moment was a 39-yard TD run in overtime to beat Houston. As much as you do not like it, it is true Qb's can run.
Vince ran the ball 83 times for 553 yards and 7 TD's. He averaged 6.7 yards a carry. Had a grand total of 19 TD's as compared to Leinarts 13 total TD's and Bush's 8.
You might be of the school of QB's should only be drop back passers and that is the only way to rate them. But there is so much more than passing, like leadership, reading defenses, calling audibles and making the decision to take off and RUN THE BALL.
Young took over a 0-3 team that was being lead by a veteran superbowl QB Kerry Collins. Vince Young came in at a desperate time for a losing team at the most important postion QB and turned the team around. Lead them to 8 wins. Nuff said.

Again, my comment was to point out the flawed argument that one is "overrated" and the other isn't.
I do not beleive that a QB needs to be a pocket passer. In fact I am thrilled to death to see Campbell back there. I think he's got it all, just needs more practice. I would honestly take Campbell over Young at this point.
I think that Steve Young was the best QB the NFL has ever seen due to his ability to scramble. So it's not that at all. I just know you can't win without a QB that can throw. Vince, like Vick, only makes things happen with their legs, when they figure out it's a passing league, that is when they will be dangerous..and I will be the first in line to congratulate them on their hard work to overcome thier flaws. (just like McNabb)

[jsarno]

By the way, if it's all about wins, then Vince helped his team acheive 4 more wins than in 05...Bush helped his team win 7 more games. Almost double. AND Bush is still playing while Vince is not, AND Bush helped to rebuild a storm damaged city.

[itvnetop]

Originally Posted by jsarno

By the way, if it's all about wins, then Vince helped his team acheive 4 more wins than in 05...Bush helped his team win 7 more games. Almost double. AND Bush is still playing while Vince is not, AND Bush helped to rebuild a storm damaged city.

Trust me, I'm the biggest Reggie Bush fan there is... but i'm also not so much of an SC homer to believe that Young was way more valuable to his team's success than Bush was to his. Bush also had a second running back in Deuce McAllister, an All pro QB in Brees, a pretty good line (led by Jammal Brown), and a sick wideout corps of Colston, Henderson and Horn. You take Bush away from that team and I believe NO still gets into the playoffs this season, probably not as one of the top seeds though. The Titans have Travis Henry, Drew Bennett and Bo Scaife. Without Young, the Titans are not even fighting for a wildcard.

You have sound arguments re: Young's shortcomings... but ROY doesn't go to the best QB who has the best pure passing abilities. It goes to the best rookie, regardless of their techniques and tendencies. We can hypothesize all day about how the Titans would have fared without Young, but results speak for themselves- and Young did more with less.