Civil Discussion About Religion

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Religion is what you make of it. Religion will be flawed because humans made it and run it. Just look at politics, humans created it, therefore it is flawed. God never tells anyone to have a religion. He tells them to have a personal relationship with Him and (using your words) have strong spirituality.
Just remember this, when you want to "blame religion", remember that #1- God NEVER agrees with killing in His name, so if you plan to, you are doing Satan's work, not His. #2- Having a religion is like being a fan of a football team. I go to church every Sunday to discuss things I beleive in with other followers that have similar beleifs. Just like I am on this site sith a bunch of people to discuss my beloved Skins and with people that have similar beliefs. We as humans love to congregate and separate. We will constantly divide amoungst ourselves. We create different groups...Republicans / Democrats, Lower / Middle / Upper class, poor / wealthy, smart / stupid. God didn't create the separation, WE did. We blame God (or try to), but He had nothing to do with it. Our sinning / human nature is what created all this. Why do you think a Catholic and a Baptist can't get along when it comes to "religion"? It's human behavior, not God.

I like the cut of your jib, jsarno. Despite your lack of faith in Vince Young.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

I like the cut of your jib, jsarno. Despite your lack of faith in Vince Young.

Thanks man. Beleive it or not, I've always enjoyed most of what you've had to say as well.
I'd love to live in a world where you can disagree on something and not be verbally abused for it. It took me a long time to realize ( and I realized this long ago) that just cause someone doesn't agree with me, doesn't mean they are stupid or inferior. It just means they disagree. Who cares? Does it matter that I beleive Vince Young is overrated? Nope. (he is, but it doesn't matter) What matters is that we are all friends here and can carry on a conversation about something just because we can.
When someone gets angry over another persons personal belief, well, that in my mind, is the definition of simple minded. No two people will feel EXACTLY the same.

[724Skinsfan]

I believe that I am the Creator but I must have hit my head on some celestial body and gotten some form of amnesia that caused me to forget how to be the Alpha and Omega. One day I fully expect to remember how to do the things I used to do like seperate Night and Day, Heaven and Earth and rip a rib out of a man to make a woman.

Oh, I go to a Catholic Mass service with my wife's family at 8:30 and my own Methodist church at 11:00 every Sunday.

I believe there is an ever-watchful but non-interfering God and I believe that a man named Jesus died for our sins. I'm still open minded about his "son of God" status, though. The idea of self-sacrifice for the good of the group weighs heavily in a lot of my decision making processes. Do unto others as you have them do unto you is another big one for me as well.

[Lady Brave]

There were quite a few questions put forth in this topic so it's kinda hard to address them all. I personally don't like the term "religion" because over time it has developed into more of a negative term. I mean, you can be religious about pretty much anything. I believe I have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. I was born into a strong Christian family and church has always been apart of my life. I grew up in and still am apart of the Pentecostal denomination. It's what works for me, because I enjoy having more of a freedom in worship than what most other denominations offer. It's a shame that churches get too caught up in the details of their particular beliefs because as Christians, we all pretty much believe in the same thing at the end of the day.

One thing I have learned is that you can't force people to believe as you do. Quoting scriptures left and right to someone usually doesn't get much results. The Bible says that each person has to work out their own salvation. I believe my greatest witness is for me to live my life in front of others as Christ did. People watch your actions much more than they listen to your words. Sometimes I still struggle with issues, but it's comforting for me to know that God is gracious and merciful and He offers forgiveness when I fall. I have been blessed beyond measure with a wonderful husband and family, great friends and an awesome pastor and church I can count on. I couldn't ask for more.

[steveo395]

I really don't see how some people could believe in evolution. If you actually think about it, the theory says that people formed from rocks if you go all the way back to the beginning of it. Life is too complex to be made by accident.

The big bang is also pretty far-fetched. The first law of thermodynamics is that matter can not be created or destroyed, but matter would have had to have been created for the big bang theory to be true.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by steveo395

I really don't see how some people could believe in evolution. If you actually think about it, the theory says that people formed from rocks if you go all the way back to the beginning of it. Life is too complex to be made by accident.

I know a lot of doctors and scientists who would say something like "simple little man."

Life may seem complex to you, but those with scientific backgrounds and qualifications don't think so. Doctors know a great deal about how our bodies work.

Just because you can't comprehend the complexity of life doesn't mean that others can't.

And no, the theory does not say we formed from rocks. It says life formed from a combination of a couple amino acids. I think you need to read "Origin of Species" by Charles Darwin. That might help you gain a better understanding.

Sorry if I came across harsh in this post. I can understand people choosing to believe in certain religions or other faith based beliefs. But I can't possibly understand anyone who dismisses the theory of evolution. The evidence is OVERWHELMING. Evolution is not a belief, it's a WIDELY accepted scientific theory based on a great deal of actual research as opposed to the Bible, which is based on the writings of several people who lived 2000 years ago.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I can't possibly understand anyone who dismisses the theory of evolution. The evidence is OVERWHELMING. Evolution is not a belief, it's a WIDELY accepted scientific theory based on a great deal of actual research as opposed to the Bible, which is based on the writings of several people who lived 2000 years ago.

without going into details, every evolutionary belief has been proved to be nothing more than theorys

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

without going into details, every evolutionary belief has been proved to be nothing more than theorys

The only reason the theories can't be proven was because we weren't around to record history over the course of billions of years. I'd love for you to go into details, because all of the arguments against the theory of evolution are scientifically flimsy at best.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The only reason the theories can't be proven was because we weren't around to record history over the course of billions of years. I'd love for you to go into details, because all of the arguments against the theory of evolution are scientifically flimsy at best.

the reason they cannot be proven is becaue they are just theoies. why is it people need scientific proof to know if something exists ? i believe some poeple who are non believers use science as a crutch. they are fearfull of what happens after death and they say to themselves "well i can't see god and there's not enough scientific evidence to prove he is real, so i'll just continue to not believe".

can you see the wind ? no, but you can see and feel the effects of the wind. what is your reasoning for believing there is a thing called wind? is it because some scientists created a way to measure the speed of it.

[steveo395]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The only reason the theories can't be proven was because we weren't around to record history over the course of billions of years. I'd love for you to go into details, because all of the arguments against the theory of evolution are scientifically flimsy at best.

The arguments against evolution are a lot stronger than the arguments for it. Evolution has basically been proven to be false. The scientists just have no other ideas against a creator, so they are sticking with evolution.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Sorry if I came across harsh in this post. I can understand people choosing to believe in certain religions or other faith based beliefs. But I can't possibly understand anyone who dismisses the theory of evolution. The evidence is OVERWHELMING. Evolution is not a belief, it's a WIDELY accepted scientific theory based on a great deal of actual research as opposed to the Bible, which is based on the writings of several people who lived 2000 years ago.

Hold on a sec...we, as humans, love to lump in evolution and the bible. The fact is the bible does not speak of evolution. This does not mean that since we believe in evolution the bible is incorrect, or that if we beleive in the bible that evolution is incorrect. Again I say, the bible is to answer the question of who, not how.
I don't mean to sound as if I don't beleive in evolution, cause I do, but waaay back everyone KNEW the world was flat, and there was plenty of evidence to convince everyone that it was true. OVERWHELMING evidence. So yes, evolution is a belief adopted by the scientific world. It can't really be proven 100%, just like the existance of God can't be proven 100%. Nor can either be disproven 100%. I am a Christian, and believe that God does exist, but I would not go so far as to say that it is FACT (not that you said that word) when it is opinion. Theory is just that...an opinion. However it is widely recognized throughout the science community that they are unsure of how everything first started. They can go back to the big bang time (or so) and have theories of how it all started. When you ask them where the rocks came from, they don't know, in fact a lot of scientists became Christians due to the fact that they can't figure it out and that it is obviously a design from a higher being. You can keep going farther and farther back until you can't go back anymore, then ask yourself what is left. In my opinion, it can only be God...but if you choose to believe there is none, then what is the answer?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Hold on a sec...we, as humans, love to lump in evolution and the bible. The fact is the bible does not speak of evolution. This does not mean that since we believe in evolution the bible is incorrect, or that if we beleive in the bible that evolution is incorrect. Again I say, the bible is to answer the question of who, not how.
I don't mean to sound as if I don't beleive in evolution, cause I do, but waaay back everyone KNEW the world was flat, and there was plenty of evidence to convince everyone that it was true. OVERWHELMING evidence. So yes, evolution is a belief adopted by the scientific world. It can't really be proven 100%, just like the existance of God can't be proven 100%. Nor can either be disproven 100%. I am a Christian, and believe that God does exist, but I would not go so far as to say that it is FACT (not that you said that word) when it is opinion. Theory is just that...an opinion. However it is widely recognized throughout the science community that they are unsure of how everything first started. They can go back to the big bang time (or so) and have theories of how it all started. When you ask them where the rocks came from, they don't know, in fact a lot of scientists became Christians due to the fact that they can't figure it out and that it is obviously a design from a higher being. You can keep going farther and farther back until you can't go back anymore, then ask yourself what is left. In my opinion, it can only be God...but if you choose to believe there is none, then what is the answer?

The limits of the human mind, that's the answer. Why is it that everything had to be created by someone or something? Is there a law that says all matter had to come from somewhere? Why did it have to be created? Why couldn't it just exist?

The concept that everything was somehow created comes from the book of Genesis. Deep down, people believe somehow the Earth, world, universe, whatever, was created. Then they try to apply that belief to the Big Bang and everything else, asking "well if the universe came from a Big Bang, then where did all the matter come in the first place?"

The true question: was matter created by someone/something? Or does it just exist?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The limits of the human mind, that's the answer. Why is it that everything had to be created by someone or something? Is there a law that says all matter had to come from somewhere? Why did it have to be created? Why couldn't it just exist?

The concept that everything was somehow created comes from the book of Genesis. Deep down, people believe somehow the Earth, world, universe, whatever, was created. Then they try to apply that belief to the Big Bang and everything else, asking "well if the universe came from a Big Bang, then where did all the matter come in the first place?"

The true question: was matter created by someone/something? Or does it just exist?

That's a very interesting question. I look at patterns and find my own conclusions...this is why I am an outstanding roulette player...the whole world has a way of evening itself out, you just need to find the patterns. You came from you parents, and their parents, and their parents before them. Everything has a beginning...think about that...everything you know in this world had a beginning, so why would something like the pre earth rocks not have a beginning?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by steveo395

I really don't see how some people could believe in evolution. If you actually think about it, the theory says that people formed from rocks if you go all the way back to the beginning of it. Life is too complex to be made by accident.

The big bang is also pretty far-fetched. The first law of thermodynamics is that matter can not be created or destroyed, but matter would have had to have been created for the big bang theory to be true.

OK, this is somewhat off the subject since I will comment on the big bang theory, but how is it far fetched? Matter can not be created or destroyed, but it can be expanded or reduced. Like a sperm and egg can turn into a 6 foot 230 pound man.
That being said, what you are standing on (earth) had to have came from somewhere, so the matter is proven because you're on it. So how is it so hard to beleive that a big bang occured to help push life on earth? The matter was there cause it's here now.
Now if you're referring to God being the matter, then I can see your point, but maybe He's not matter...I don't know. Everything comes from somewhere, but there has to be something that did not come from something...not everything can be created. 1 thing has to be ominant. 1 thing had to be there to create it all. Something had to start it all. Is that God? I say yes, it's a logical explanation to me.

About your comment, that life came from rocks...that's not completely true. They came from the ingrediants from those rocks that came together. God is very powerful and if he wanted to create us from dust / rocks, then He can.

[RobH4413]

p.s. im drunk