Dan Henning back to the Redskins?

[ncskinsfanec]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Henning being available is a year too late I think. He would have been a better fit if we could have brought him in last year instead of Saunders.

By the way, Saunders can coach circles around Henning. Do you have any idea how bad the Panthers offense has been the last couple of years with him at the helm? I'm sure he's a nice fellow, but his offensive schemes have been average at best.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by ncskinsfanec

By the way, Saunders can coach circles around Henning. Do you have any idea how bad the Panthers offense has been the last couple of years with him at the helm? I'm sure he's a nice fellow, but his offensive schemes have been average at best.

Too many people get all caught up in this coaching stuff. Most of the teams in the NFL run the same plays for the most part. The Panthers had O-Line problems and Delhomme was up and down all year. No one had as bad a running game than the Panthers. Not much the coach can do when the players are not getting it done. Saunders and Martz plays look great when they have the best O-line, Warner in his prime, LJ, Tony G., Holt, Bruce, Faulk, Holmes and so on. But when they go to Det. and Wash. and the players are not as good then I guess their schemes all of a sudden suck?? Players win in the NFL, not coaches.

[ncskinsfanec]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Too many people get all caught up in this coaching stuff. Most of the teams in the NFL run the same plays for the most part. The Panthers had O-Line problems and Delhomme was up and down all year. No one had as bad a running game than the Panthers. Not much the coach can do when the players are not getting it done. Saunders and Martz plays look great when they have the best O-line, Warner in his prime, LJ, Tony G., Holt, Bruce, Faulk, Holmes and so on. But when they go to Det. and Wash. and the players are not as good then I guess their schemes all of a sudden suck?? Players win in the NFL, not coaches.

Yep, that's all true, but there must have been something wrong with him if he got fired, don't you think? By the way, I didn't think Saunders scheme sucked this year, and it's only going to get better as the players get more and more comfortable with it. Inventive coaching does make a difference and if you need any further proof look at how good (or bad) that offensive coordinator for the Raiders did this season, you know the one who was running a bed and breakfast before he was hired. Too many people get caught up in this coaching stuff because coaching makes a huge difference! Coaches and players play an equal hand in whether a team wins or losses!

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by ncskinsfanec

Yep, that's all true, but there must have been something wrong with him if he got fired, don't you think? ... Inventive coaching does make a difference and if you need any further proof look at how good (or bad) that offensive coordinator for the Raiders did this season ... Coaches and players play an equal hand in whether a team wins or losses!

Who knows the reasons he will be let go -- personal conflict with the head coach, team moving in a different direction, maybe Henning wants out -- coaches who part with their current team doesn't necessarily mean there is something wrong with them.

The Raiders are a bad analogy - that team sucks. You have a first round bust in Robert Gallery, a slow, overrated running back in Lamont Jordan, a live locker room grenade in Randy Moss, and three bad quarterbacks.

Your last statement, though, is exactly right. You need both great coaching and great players. Belichick didn't have that in Cleveland, but he has it now in New England. I think the reason the Pats have been so good even thought they lose big name players is they have the front office to go out and find quality replacements -- and that's the other key along with coaching and players - a fantastic front office. Put those three together and you practically can't lose.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by ncskinsfanec

Yep, that's all true, but there must have been something wrong with him if he got fired, don't you think? By the way, I didn't think Saunders scheme sucked this year, and it's only going to get better as the players get more and more comfortable with it. Inventive coaching does make a difference and if you need any further proof look at how good (or bad) that offensive coordinator for the Raiders did this season, you know the one who was running a bed and breakfast before he was hired. Too many people get caught up in this coaching stuff because coaching makes a huge difference! Coaches and players play an equal hand in whether a team wins or losses!

I never said Saunders sucked. I actually like the diversity he brings. Although I hope he stays committed to the run. I have a feeling if Gibbs and Buges was not here we would be throwing it all over the place which makes me nervous. We simply don't have the players to run that type of offense.

Tom Walsh may suck as an OC but he had no QB and no O-line. That = a bad offense. Oakland's offense didn't get any better when they removed him did it?

[ncskinsfanec]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I never said Saunders sucked. I actually like the diversity he brings. Although I hope he stays committed to the run. I have a feeling if Gibbs and Buges was not here we would be throwing it all over the place which makes me nervous. We simply don't have the players to run that type of offense.

Tom Walsh may suck as an OC but he had no QB and no O-line. That = a bad offense. Oakland's offense didn't get any better when they removed him did it?

Another one of those, agree to disagree matters. Your opinions are certainly well put though!

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Too many people get all caught up in this coaching stuff. Most of the teams in the NFL run the same plays for the most part. .....
.... Players win in the NFL, not coaches.

Wow... that's a pretty brazen series of statements... I have to disagree.

Please Explain the most recent NFL dynasty (who is poised to take another championship this year) led by Belichick....

The only Constant on the team has been Brady. Who else... Matt Light? They got rid of Lawyer Milloy, and everyone said the team was going to fall apart... nope.

Then Ty Law. Willie McGinnist. Adam Vinatieri. David Givens, Deion Branch, David Patten, blah blah blah blah blah... and this year Asante Samuels will be gone, unless he pulls a Bruschi and takes less money to stay there, which he wont...

They keep ditching their "best" players and keep winning and winning and winning. That's a tribute to what coaching can do in this league.

I understand that you need talent to win. Im not going to argue that, and I don't think Belichick is fielding a team of Division IIA talent players and taking them to the playoffs every year... but I doubt Norv Turner or Jim Fassel would ever take the same team to the SB...

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

Wow... that's a pretty brazen series of statements... I have to disagree.

Please Explain the most recent NFL dynasty (who is poised to take another championship this year) led by Belichick....

The only Constant on the team has been Brady. Who else... Matt Light? They got rid of Lawyer Milloy, and everyone said the team was going to fall apart... nope.

Then Ty Law. Willie McGinnist. Adam Vinatieri. David Givens, Deion Branch, David Patten, blah blah blah blah blah... and this year Asante Samuels will be gone, unless he pulls a Bruschi and takes less money to stay there, which he wont...

They keep ditching their "best" players and keep winning and winning and winning. That's a tribute to what coaching can do in this league.

I understand that you need talent to win. Im not going to argue that, and I don't think Belichick is fielding a team of Division IIA talent players and taking them to the playoffs every year... but I doubt Norv Turner or Jim Fassel would ever take the same team to the SB...

Bill B. is a great NFL coach. No doubt about it. But they have had a 30-31 year old running the offense the last few years. Do you think Josh M. knows more about NFL offense than Martz, Saunders or even Norv Turner? Probably not. He's simply got a great QB. Brady is carrying the offense. He's got Caldwell, 100 year old T. Brown and Gaffney at WR?????? That's insane. Brady makes it all go on offense. He's also got two stud TE's. But if Brady gets hurt they are done.

On defense they have had some losses. Key losses in the secondary. And to overcome some of the losses is simply amazing. But remember they have a great linemen in Seymour and two VERY underrated players in Vince Wilfork and Ty Warren. I think all three are number one picks and all hold down the run. The LB's are also solid. Vrabel, Colvin and Tedy B. are also as good as anyone set of LB's.

By no means am I saying Bill B. and his staff can't coach cause I would take them over the Skins staff in a heartbeat. Or any staff for that matter. But without the players I mentioned they are not a good team.

[ncskinsfanec]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Bill B. is a great NFL coach. No doubt about it. But they have had a 30-31 year old running the offense the last few years. Do you think Josh M. knows more about NFL offense than Martz, Saunders or even Norv Turner? Probably not. He's simply got a great QB. Brady is carrying the offense. He's got Caldwell, 100 year old T. Brown and Gaffney at WR?????? That's insane. Brady makes it all go on offense. He's also got two stud TE's. But if Brady gets hurt they are done.

On defense they have had some losses. Key losses in the secondary. And to overcome some of the losses is simply amazing. But remember they have a great linemen in Seymour and two VERY underrated players in Vince Wilfork and Ty Warren. I think all three are number one picks and all hold down the run. The LB's are also solid. Vrabel, Colvin and Tedy B. are also as good as anyone set of LB's.

By no means am I saying Bill B. and his staff can't coach cause I would take them over the Skins staff in a heartbeat. Or any staff for that matter. But without the players I mentioned they are not a good team.

You think Belichick is better than Gibbs, or the Pats staff is better than the Skins staff? I think the Skins staff is very good, but they just couldn't get it done this season, though.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by ncskinsfanec

You think Belichick is better than Gibbs, or the Pats staff is better than the Skins staff? I think the Skins staff is very good, but they just couldn't get it done this season, though.

BB and his staff are HANDS DOWN BETTER. Gibbs 1, different story. No one was better than Gibbs and Ritchie. No one!! But Gibbs 2? Where are the half time adjustments? Why all the time outs to think about kicking FG's? Why don't we attack the other teams weakness on offense? Did you notice how NE played Minn and how we played Minn? Now I know we don't have Tom Brady but NE ( and Miami for that matter w/ Harrington) played 4-5 WR sets becasue they knew Minn was very tough to run against. They made Minn's defense look stupid by throwing 10-20 yard passes the whole game. WHEN DOES OUR OFFENSE DO THIS? NEVER!!! Any NFL QB should be able to throw medium range passes, especially when you have 50 WR's on your roster. NE has cast offs for crying out loud. But they game planned for that specific team and it seems we never ever do this. Our game plan ( on offense) is try and run everyone over. Well that shit is not working against top run teams. You have to adjust but it seems we never do. That's pure coaching.

And don't get me started on GW this past year. Do you notice how NE's corners are always in the Indy WR's faces? Jacking them up to disrupt the timimg? Did our defesne do this against Indy? No. We sat back in zone and let them pass all over us and didn't get physical. If your going to get beat at least try and knock someone on their ass. That's coaching!

Yes the players sucked this year but the coaching needs to get better too. Way better.

[ncskinsfanec]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

BB and his staff are HANDS DOWN BETTER. Gibbs 1, different story. No one was better than Gibbs and Ritchie. No one!! But Gibbs 2? Where are the half time adjustments? Why all the time outs to think about kicking FG's? Why don't we attack the other teams weakness on offense? Did you notice how NE played Minn and how we played Minn? Now I know we don't have Tom Brady but NE ( and Miami for that matter w/ Harrington) played 4-5 WR sets becasue they knew Minn was very tough to run against. They made Minn's defense look stupid by throwing 10-20 yard passes the whole game. WHEN DOES OUR OFFENSE DO THIS? NEVER!!! Any NFL QB should be able to throw medium range passes, especially when you have 50 WR's on your roster. NE has cast offs for crying out loud. But they game planned for that specific team and it seems we never ever do this. Our game plan ( on offense) is try and run everyone over. Well that shit is not working against top run teams. You have to adjust but it seems we never do. That's pure coaching.

And don't get me started on GW this past year. Do you notice how NE's corners are always in the Indy WR's faces? Jacking them up to disrupt the timimg? Did our defesne do this against Indy? No. We sat back in zone and let them pass all over us and didn't get physical. If your going to get beat at least try and knock someone on their ass. That's coaching!

Yes the players sucked this year but the coaching needs to get better too. Way better.

Why do think Gibbs, with the exception of last year, has struggled so much in his second incarnation as coach? Why haven't we seen the Skins play now like the teams of the 80's and early 90's?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

BB and his staff are HANDS DOWN BETTER. Gibbs 1, different story. No one was better than Gibbs and Ritchie. No one!! But Gibbs 2? Where are the half time adjustments? Why all the time outs to think about kicking FG's? Why don't we attack the other teams weakness on offense? Did you notice how NE played Minn and how we played Minn? Now I know we don't have Tom Brady but NE ( and Miami for that matter w/ Harrington) played 4-5 WR sets becasue they knew Minn was very tough to run against. They made Minn's defense look stupid by throwing 10-20 yard passes the whole game. WHEN DOES OUR OFFENSE DO THIS? NEVER!!! Any NFL QB should be able to throw medium range passes, especially when you have 50 WR's on your roster. NE has cast offs for crying out loud. But they game planned for that specific team and it seems we never ever do this. Our game plan ( on offense) is try and run everyone over. Well that shit is not working against top run teams. You have to adjust but it seems we never do. That's pure coaching.

I know what you're saying here, and I agree -- Gibbs has coached like a scared rabbit this time around.

But I think you've answered your own question -- New England has Tom Brady, we had Mark Brunell.

That opening game against Minnesota was maddening. The Skins came out with the same level of intensity they showed all preseason -- the intensity of a corpse. It set the tone for the season, and the gameplan likely wouldn't have mattered as long as the players performed like they were 85 years old.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by ncskinsfanec

By the way, Saunders can coach circles around Henning. Do you have any idea how bad the Panthers offense has been the last couple of years with him at the helm? I'm sure he's a nice fellow, but his offensive schemes have been average at best.

I like Saunders but Henning isn't a slouch either.

He was a convenient fall guy for their struggles this season. They had plenty of other problems that this article points out such as injuries, lack of turnovers, poor starting field position, etc.

"I'm probably a lot more conservative in my politics than I am in my football," he said. "We coached here under a certain (ball control) philosophy and I think we did a pretty good job of it."


Several factors contributed to the offensive woes in 2006. Carolina was last in the league in kickoff and punt returns, and also forced 22 turnovers, down from 42 the previous season. That combination proved disastrous for the Panthers' field position -- in 2006 they started 80 drives from inside their 20, compared with 50 the season before.


There are some on the team who believe Henning and the others were merely convenient targets for the team's failures. One offensive starter said, "I guess they had to do something. Nobody wants to be sitting around a year from now knowing nothing had been changed."

[Beemnseven]

As long as the structure for acquiring players for this team stays intact, it won't matter who the coach is. Giving up draft picks for heymakers in the free agent market, while HOPING they pan out has not, and will not work. It's one thing if draft picks don't work out - you still have next years draft and a bit more cap space to work with to make it right.

But when you mortgage the future for a quick fix, well ... we know what happens then.

[The Huddle]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

As long as the structure for acquiring players for this team stays intact, it won't matter who the coach is. Giving up draft picks for heymakers in the free agent market, while HOPING they pan out has not, and will not work. It's one thing if draft picks don't work out - you still have next years draft and a bit more cap space to work with to make it right.

But when you mortgage the future for a quick fix, well ... we know what happens then.

The problem is that Gibbs embraces the very structure you've pointed out as lacking. As de facto GM as well as coach, there is very little about this organization that can't be traced back directly to Gibbs.