NFC East Champ?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Your might be right. But even w/out Kearse and DM they still won the division and won a playoff game. And could have advanced to the championship game. So they are still the favorites.

Well, it's not like Garcia was a replacement level QB either. This season he played slightly worse than McNabb did, and McNabb was in the midst of his best season as a pro before the injury.

One thing you get with Garcia that you don't get with McNabb is consistency. McNabb can have stretches of games where he can go 3 and a half quarters making poor reads, overthrowing guys, and not doing the things with his legs that he's capable of. He has other games where he comes out of the gate in the zone and posts ridiculous numbers. It's a lot like Grossman in Chicago, but McNabb rarely gets picked even on his bad days (this is probably mostly an experience thing, but also McNabb is fortunate that his poorly thrown incompletions fall harmlessly to the turf whereas Grossman's find a way into the hands of a defensive back). All in all it averages out to a pretty good QB. But the Eagles as a team probably aren't too much better off offensively with Donovan than with Garcia; it's splitting hairs.

Kearse is...overrated. They let Derrick Burgess walk to make room for Kearse, and Burgess is probably the better player.

If the only thing that mattered was starting lineups, we are probably better than Philly. But they do a great job rotating in fresh defensive talent, and are built to deal well with injuries, and in an imperfect world like the NFL have a great chance to finish better than us.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

One thing you get with Garcia that you don't get with McNabb is consistency. McNabb can have stretches of games where he can go 3 and a half quarters making poor reads, overthrowing guys, and not doing the things with his legs that he's capable of. He has other games where he comes out of the gate in the zone and posts ridiculous numbers. It's a lot like Grossman in Chicago, but McNabb rarely gets picked even on his bad days (this is probably mostly an experience thing, but also McNabb is fortunate that his poorly thrown incompletions fall harmlessly to the turf whereas Grossman's find a way into the hands of a defensive back). All in all it averages out to a pretty good QB. But the Eagles as a team probably aren't too much better off offensively with Donovan than with Garcia; it's splitting hairs.

I agree with the rest of your post, but not your point about McNabb. Obviously, as this season proved, the Eagles offense is good even when McNabb is MIA. That said, I think McNabb is one of the best QBs in the league and is pretty consistent.

Garcia had a great year, but he looked horrible in Detroit and Cleveland. Granted, those teams are awful, but he was just off for the past two years. I guarantee that if Garcia goes somewhere else this offseason to become a starter, he'll tank.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I agree with the rest of your post, but not your point about McNabb. Obviously, as this season proved, the Eagles offense is good even when McNabb is MIA. That said, I think McNabb is one of the best QBs in the league and is pretty consistent.

Garcia had a great year, but he looked horrible in Detroit and Cleveland. Granted, those teams are awful, but he was just off for the past two years. I guarantee that if Garcia goes somewhere else this offseason to become a starter, he'll tank.

SGG, Garcia may have played poor with Cleveland and Detroit but those two franchises are two of the most underachieving teams in the NFL. He played at a Pro Bowl level in San Francisco. I agree that McNabb is a little better but Garcia's not too bad. If Dallas or the Giants were to pick him up as a backup to Rhomo or Ellie, I think he could be just as effective as a starter as he was with Philly.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

SGG, Garcia may have played poor with Cleveland and Detroit but those two franchises are two of the most underachieving teams in the NFL. He played at a Pro Bowl level in San Francisco. I agree that McNabb is a little better but Garcia's not too bad. If Dallas or the Giants were to pick him up as a backup to Rhomo or Ellie, I think he could be just as effective as a starter as he was with Philly.

Yeah, I conceded that Detroit and Cleveland are two horrible teams. But, Jon Kitna was able to put up 4,208 yards last season. I'm in Wisconsin and got to see a lot of NFC North action over the past few years. In watching the Lions, Garcia looked dreadful and not just because he was getting pressure. And I seem to recall that he was starting to struggle in San Fran in 2003.

[BDBohnzie]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

SGG, Garcia may have played poor with Cleveland and Detroit but those two franchises are two of the most underachieving teams in the NFL. He played at a Pro Bowl level in San Francisco. I agree that McNabb is a little better but Garcia's not too bad. If Dallas or the Giants were to pick him up as a backup to Rhomo or Ellie, I think he could be just as effective as a starter as he was with Philly.

Garcia's career can be summed up this way:
San Fran - Great O Line, great play from Garcia
Cleveland, Detroit - Sucky O Lines, miserable play from Garcia
Philly - Great O Line, great play from Garcia

If he's smart, he re-ups with Philly to be McNabb's backup. He's a very capable QB, who could start for plenty of teams in the NFL...as long as they have a decent O Line.

And Drafts and FAs aside, the Skins still have a long way to go in order to overtake the other teams in the East. The Skins can compete, but in order to be top dog, you have to overtake.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

Garcia's career can be summed up this way:
San Fran - Great O Line, great play from Garcia
Cleveland, Detroit - Sucky O Lines, miserable play from Garcia
Philly - Great O Line, great play from Garcia

If he's smart, he re-ups with Philly to be McNabb's backup. He's a very capable QB, who could start for plenty of teams in the NFL...as long as they have a decent O Line.

And Drafts and FAs aside, the Skins still have a long way to go in order to overtake the other teams in the East. The Skins can compete, but in order to be top dog, you have to overtake.

Good words. The Skin's greatest adversaries year in and year out are themselves. Having competitive teams in your division doesn't make it easy. Once they can get a plan in which all of the coaches are on board and most of the players are on board with (I would say "all" but come on). Then the talent that is already there can achieve what we envision already.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

Garcia's career can be summed up this way:
San Fran - Great O Line, great play from Garcia
Cleveland, Detroit - Sucky O Lines, miserable play from Garcia
Philly - Great O Line, great play from Garcia

If he's smart, he re-ups with Philly to be McNabb's backup. He's a very capable QB, who could start for plenty of teams in the NFL...as long as they have a decent O Line.

And Drafts and FAs aside, the Skins still have a long way to go in order to overtake the other teams in the East. The Skins can compete, but in order to be top dog, you have to overtake.

Did Detroit or Cleveland run the West coast offense like they did in San Fran and Philly? I ask this because I think the offensive style in Philly probably fit Garcia better than most places and that's why he did so well.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

Did Detroit or Cleveland run the West coast offense like they did in San Fran and Philly? I ask this because I think the offensive style in Philly probably fit Garcia better than most places and that's why he did so well.

Interestingly Cleveland didn't run it, but Detroit did.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

Garcia's career can be summed up this way:
San Fran - Great O Line, great play from Garcia
Cleveland, Detroit - Sucky O Lines, miserable play from Garcia
Philly - Great O Line, great play from Garcia

If he's smart, he re-ups with Philly to be McNabb's backup. He's a very capable QB, who could start for plenty of teams in the NFL...as long as they have a decent O Line.

And Drafts and FAs aside, the Skins still have a long way to go in order to overtake the other teams in the East. The Skins can compete, but in order to be top dog, you have to overtake.

Ultimately, I thought he played pretty well in Cleveland. He got knocked out for the year about midway through with a 3-4 record, but I thought he played pretty well because the Browns had a huge gap at QB after that.

His 2005 season in Detroit makes no sense. The team wasn't any worse than the 2004 Browns, and every measure of performance including the eyeball test from me said he was playing horribly. Harrington played better. It could have been therorized that he was done, but rarely does a QB just lose it and never get it back. It's usually a gradual decline with age starting about the players 10th professional season.

My best guess about Garcia's 2005 performance is similar to that to Brunell 2004. Both years were a complete abberation in a very solid career. We later found out Brunell was playing on one leg, and if you'll remember Garcia broke his leg in the preseason in 2005 and was rushed back...this is my best guess to describe what happened in 2005.

So I don't think he's lost that much since his prime in SF in 2002. It's been a very slight decline since then with an abberation year in 2005. I think he can be a pretty good QB for 2-3 more seasons if he continues to get oppertunities, which is a big ? right now.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, it's not like Garcia was a replacement level QB either. This season he played slightly worse than McNabb did, and McNabb was in the midst of his best season as a pro before the injury.

One thing you get with Garcia that you don't get with McNabb is consistency. McNabb can have stretches of games where he can go 3 and a half quarters making poor reads, overthrowing guys, and not doing the things with his legs that he's capable of. He has other games where he comes out of the gate in the zone and posts ridiculous numbers. It's a lot like Grossman in Chicago, but McNabb rarely gets picked even on his bad days (this is probably mostly an experience thing, but also McNabb is fortunate that his poorly thrown incompletions fall harmlessly to the turf whereas Grossman's find a way into the hands of a defensive back). All in all it averages out to a pretty good QB. But the Eagles as a team probably aren't too much better off offensively with Donovan than with Garcia; it's splitting hairs.

Kearse is...overrated. They let Derrick Burgess walk to make room for Kearse, and Burgess is probably the better player.

If the only thing that mattered was starting lineups, we are probably better than Philly. But they do a great job rotating in fresh defensive talent, and are built to deal well with injuries, and in an imperfect world like the NFL have a great chance to finish better than us.

Before McNabb got hurt he was having a great year w/out TO. No QB is perfect.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Before McNabb got hurt he was having a great year w/out TO. No QB is perfect.

Of course not. I'm picking the Eagles to win the division next year, but quarterback play is not the reason. They had a good QB play all of last year. McNabb was on a torrid pace in the first six weeks, but cooled as the season went on, ultimately being knocked out. Garcia comes right in and theres no significant dropoff at the QB position. They will have a better QB playing next year, and I really don't think the ACL injury will be a factor.

I was just trying to point out that as good as McNabb can be at times, when he simply does no wrong, Andy Reid's offense can really struggle when McNabb isn't feeling it. They just won't be able to put a drive toghether for more than half a game. A player can't always rely on one quarter making up for three quarters of poor play.

In the game against TB last year, he was picked twice for TD's and directed an offense that scored 7 points in Tampa through 52 mins. On the other side of the field, Gradkowski had done nothing all day offensively, but his team was up 20-0. McNabb, as he is paid to do, scored on 3 consecutive drives against some really shoddy Buccaneer defense, but sometimes it's too little too late. Great quarter, but it only took the Bucs a minute to get to the 45 yard line, and some tough luck with Matt Bryant hitting a 62 yarder cost them the game. Good work by McNabb to bring them back, but when you don't show up for the first 3 quarters, the games probably not going to end in your hands.

I was just pointing out how thats not a problem with Garcia. Garcia never takes 3 quarters to get going.

I DON'T think Philly is a SB team next year, just the best team in the East.

McNabb's a pretty good QB in his prime, but I think Jason Campbell is going to be better, maybe as soon as 2008.