Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Middle east he ignored, did we forget about our sailors who were attacked and killed in port, the two embassy buildings bombed, and the first twin towers bombing by terrorist. Then we could mention the time that Bin Laden was offered to Clinton by the Sudaness which he turned down. Thats favorable for Clinton?

bill clinton knew what the definition of politics was. sometimes you have to swallow some losses in one place to accomplish something later on down the road. and saying bin laden was offered to clinton is great hindsight. and maybe regan should have took better care of who he sold illegal arms to? with clinton in office, the middle east was about as stable as its probably ever going to be. and this president seems to think strongarming our opposition will get them to lay down and obey. i guess he is starting to see otherwise.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by dmek25

bill clinton knew what the definition of politics was. sometimes you have to swallow some losses in one place to accomplish something later on down the road. and saying bin laden was offered to clinton is great hindsight. and maybe regan should have took better care of who he sold illegal arms to? with clinton in office, the middle east was about as stable as its probably ever going to be. and this president seems to think strongarming our opposition will get them to lay down and obey. i guess he is starting to see otherwise.

It's interesting you say that about Clinton. I think some still see him as a political force.

If Hillary wins, some have suggested Bill would make a good Secretary of State in her cabinet.

I definitely think he would have handled the Iraq situation differently.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

bill clinton knew what the definition of politics was. sometimes you have to swallow some losses in one place to accomplish something later on down the road. and saying bin laden was offered to clinton is great hindsight. and maybe regan should have took better care of who he sold illegal arms to? with clinton in office, the middle east was about as stable as its probably ever going to be. and this president seems to think strongarming our opposition will get them to lay down and obey. i guess he is starting to see otherwise.

How is the offering of Bin Ladin hine site he was a known leader of the terrorist world who said he would kill us?

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by firstdown

How is the offering of Bin Ladin hine site he was a known leader of the terrorist world who said he would kill us?

wasn't bin laden part of al quaeda that the united states armed to try and take out Afghanistan? i wonder who was president then?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

wasn't bin laden part of al quaeda that the united states armed to try and take out Afghanistan? i wonder who was president then?

I had never heard that we gave arms to Al Quaeda.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I had never heard that we gave arms to Al Quaeda.

back when russia rolled into afghanstan and basically got their asses handed to them

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by dmek25

back when russia rolled into afghanstan and basically got their asses handed to them

A little off topic, but one of the most shocking things I have ever seen. A video ran on the news in the early stages of the war. It shows two Afghans literally standing next to their camels in a mountaneous region in Afghanistan. Next scene two Russian Migs come over the mountains in the distance. The announcer states that each one costs Mother Russia 30m. Then he says we are supplying arms to the rebel forces. These two guys each shoulder a hand held "surface to air" missile launcher costing abolut $1000 each. they both lock up and fire. Bingo! 60m in Russian hardware are shot down for 2 g's. It was amazing

[Duffman003]

I dont see how we can win this war, if it even is a war, since more people are hating the US and creating more terrorists. This just seems like it's going to be the next vietnam but now it seems like we are fighting an entire ethnic group

[Hail2theskins]

Originally Posted by dmek25

bill clinton knew what the definition of politics was. sometimes you have to swallow some losses in one place to accomplish something later on down the road. and saying bin laden was offered to clinton is great hindsight. and maybe regan should have took better care of who he sold illegal arms to? with clinton in office, the middle east was about as stable as its probably ever going to be. and this president seems to think strongarming our opposition will get them to lay down and obey. i guess he is starting to see otherwise.

Youve got to be kidding me right? because he chose to ignore the situation during his tenure and the media never portrayed it by no means made the middle east stable. After failing to deal with the actions of Bush sr. Iraq was hung out to dry by the clinton administration. The guy was a good politician he just chose not to intervene in pretty much anything whatsoever, IE rwanda... People hate us just because we are a world power, everyone wants it both ways, to use rwanda as example, everyone got pissed at us that we didnt go in, however had we decided to go in and intervene everyone wouldve been telling us to stick to our own business, theres going to be naysayers for whatever argument there is and thats a fact. You can look at all of this in history too, funny how it repeats itself, if we have a policy of neutrality and isolationism people think we need to get involved, IE WW1, but if we have a policy of intervention and playing "world police" people hate us too, IE, vietnam (just an example dont ream me for that). Everyone has 20/20 hindsight, the hard part is trying to estimate the future. Im not bashing clinton or any administration im simply trying to get across the point that you can never make everyone happy.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hail2theskins

Youve got to be kidding me right? because he chose to ignore the situation during his tenure and the media never portrayed it by no means made the middle east stable. After failing to deal with the actions of Bush sr. Iraq was hung out to dry by the clinton administration. The guy was a good politician he just chose not to intervene in pretty much anything whatsoever, IE rwanda... People hate us just because we are a world power, everyone wants it both ways, to use rwanda as example, everyone got pissed at us that we didnt go in, however had we decided to go in and intervene everyone wouldve been telling us to stick to our own business, theres going to be naysayers for whatever argument there is and thats a fact. You can look at all of this in history too, funny how it repeats itself, if we have a policy of neutrality and isolationism people think we need to get involved, IE WW1, but if we have a policy of intervention and playing "world police" people hate us too, IE, vietnam (just an example dont ream me for that). Everyone has 20/20 hindsight, the hard part is trying to estimate the future. Im not bashing clinton or any administration im simply trying to get across the point that you can never make everyone happy.

I remember he intervened but I can't remember where. The movie was made Black Hawk Down.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I remember he intervened but I can't remember where. The movie was made Black Hawk Down.

somalia. he tried to straighten out a mess that was very similar to iraq. he knew that those people didnt want the help. they were bred to kill. we packed up and left. probably the best solution for iraq, too

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

somalia. he tried to straighten out a mess that was very similar to iraq. he knew that those people didnt want the help. they were bred to kill. we packed up and left. probably the best solution for iraq, too

I'd say Somalia was more like Afghanastan. Afghanastan was taken over by Al Queda and Somalia was taken over by drug dealers.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by dmek25

somalia. he tried to straighten out a mess that was very similar to iraq. he knew that those people didnt want the help. they were bred to kill. we packed up and left. probably the best solution for iraq, too

Actually didn't really try to straighten out the mess, he created it. Bush I went into Somalia and fighting broke out between Somali militias and US troops during the Clinton administration. He screwed that one up royally. I did my college senior honors thesis on the U.S. intervention in Somalia (before Black Hawk Down came out) and got to talk to some interesting military and political officials. When I spoke with Clinton's National Security Advisor Anthony Lake (name-drop), even he admitted they screwed up big time. When Clinton left office and gave an "exit interiew" to Dan Rather, he said his biggest mistake was his handling of the intervention in Somalia.

Even though I think Clinton was a pretty good President (who also happened to be lucky enough to come into office when the economy was about to take off), he was pretty awful when it came to foreign policy. Clinton was a "domestic President" who simply didn't know what he was doing when it came to international relations.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Even though I think Clinton was a pretty good President (who also happened to be lucky enough to come into office when the economy was about to take off), he was pretty awful when it came to foreign policy. Clinton was a "domestic President" who simply didn't know what he was doing when it came to international relations.

That was the core of his platform. That while Bush 1 had been so focused on foreign affairs he had forgotten about America. And Clinton would worry about our own backyard

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

That was the core of his platform. That while Bush 1 had been so focused on foreign affairs he had forgotten about America. And Clinton would worry about our own backyard

Yeah and he did a pretty good job, but in doing so he screwed up interventions like Somalia.

Also, I'd like to echo the sentiments that it's so nice to be able to discuss "deep thoughts" with guys like you without getting into pissing matches or heated arguments.