WP: Redskins Targeting London Fletcher, Nate Clements

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I am not saying he can't play. My point is we fielded the oldest defense in the NFL last year and we need some younger, quicker, more physical players. what kind of deal do you think he is going to want? do we really want to give this guy the money he wants when we need a lot of different areas upgraded. We drafted a guy last year(Rocky) who should be given a shot at playing, and if Fletcher is brought in to compete or add depth, fine. but at what cost? I just dont see the need to bring in a guy, on the down slope of his career for a year or two, then have to cut him and eat more cap money. We dont have the draft picks, i know that. but why not trade down, get a couple more picks and look at drafting a guy that could compete as well as he could. We gave up picks to move up to get Rocky, are we going to let him rott on the bench? He should be expected to start. to say someone isn't football smart because I dont believe in bringing guys in that are obviously on the downside of their career is crazy. Haven't we gone down that road enough of bringing in people towards the end of their career? There have to be other options out there more attractive than a 32 year old LB.

Well first off Rocky is an OLB and despite what many seem to think MLB and OLB are not just interchangeable. Especially in GW's system. In this system the MLB is the QB of the defense. He has to know what everyone is supposed to do so he can adjust when he diagrams what the other team is doing. For some reason I highly doubt anyone at Redskins park is willing to go into the next season with a guy who showed he can play the position average(Marshall) and a second year player who couldn't even crack the lineup at his natural position until mop up time. Rocky is not the answer.

As for trading down I agree it would be great to trade down and pick up several quality players but there are some problems with that too. First and foremost people make the statement 'trade down and pick up some more picks' just like they make the 'hire a GM statement'. Like it is some magical formula where you can go to the GM store or the Tradedown store and magically everything is fine. Well I have news for those people, trading takes two teams and if no one is willing to offer anything of value it won't happen. It is NOT a sound strategy to PLAN ON TRADING. You plan and prepare on NOT TRADING DOWN and if an opportuniy arises then you re-evaluate. The same for a GM. Just because we have a GM doesn't mean everything is fine. He would need to be a GOOD GM. There are plenty of teams who have traded down and ended up with scrap pieces because they traded away a shot at a difference maker and ended up with decent roll players. And there are plenty teams that never win championships with GMs.

That being said, you go into free agency looking to fix as many holes as possible so you dont have to rely on drafting to field 22 decent starters. Then the draft is used for depth. If we can bring a guy who knows the systems and can play why would his age be a problem? No one is expecting the guy to come in be the MLB for the next 8 years. We are talking about getting a good player to play for us while we build depth at the same position and others also.

I totally fail to see why his age is even a consideration other than for health reasons.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

There are plenty of teams who have traded down and ended up with scrap pieces because they traded away a shot at a difference maker and ended up with decent roll players. And there are plenty teams that never win championships with GMs.

I totally fail to see why his age is even a consideration other than for health reasons.

ditto and ditto. well said.

[oldhog44]

Redskinconfucian wisdom say

If you can get em for the right price.. take em .... If you can't don't

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Well first off Rocky is an OLB and despite what many seem to think MLB and OLB are not just interchangeable. Especially in GW's system. In this system the MLB is the QB of the defense. He has to know what everyone is supposed to do so he can adjust when he diagrams what the other team is doing. For some reason I highly doubt anyone at Redskins park is willing to go into the next season with a guy who showed he can play the position average(Marshall) and a second year player who couldn't even crack the lineup at his natural position until mop up time. Rocky is not the answer.

As for trading down I agree it would be great to trade down and pick up several quality players but there are some problems with that too. First and foremost people make the statement 'trade down and pick up some more picks' just like they make the 'hire a GM statement'. Like it is some magical formula where you can go to the GM store or the Tradedown store and magically everything is fine. Well I have news for those people, trading takes two teams and if no one is willing to offer anything of value it won't happen. It is NOT a sound strategy to PLAN ON TRADING. You plan and prepare on NOT TRADING DOWN and if an opportuniy arises then you re-evaluate. The same for a GM. Just because we have a GM doesn't mean everything is fine. He would need to be a GOOD GM. There are plenty of teams who have traded down and ended up with scrap pieces because they traded away a shot at a difference maker and ended up with decent roll players. And there are plenty teams that never win championships with GMs.

That being said, you go into free agency looking to fix as many holes as possible so you dont have to rely on drafting to field 22 decent starters. Then the draft is used for depth. If we can bring a guy who knows the systems and can play why would his age be a problem? No one is expecting the guy to come in be the MLB for the next 8 years. We are talking about getting a good player to play for us while we build depth at the same position and others also.

I totally fail to see why his age is even a consideration other than for health reasons.

Isn't Floyd Reece unemployed right now? I think he has a proven record. Why isn't he here? If Danny Boi were serious about winning then he would be here and he should not care who's feelings he hurts.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Isn't Floyd Reece unemployed right now? I think he has a proven record. Why isn't he here? If Danny Boi were serious about winning then he would be here and he should not care who's feelings he hurts.

Yeah because Snyder isn't serious about winning.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Well first off Rocky is an OLB and despite what many seem to think MLB and OLB are not just interchangeable. Especially in GW's system. In this system the MLB is the QB of the defense. He has to know what everyone is supposed to do so he can adjust when he diagrams what the other team is doing. For some reason I highly doubt anyone at Redskins park is willing to go into the next season with a guy who showed he can play the position average(Marshall) and a second year player who couldn't even crack the lineup at his natural position until mop up time. Rocky is not the answer.

As for trading down I agree it would be great to trade down and pick up several quality players but there are some problems with that too. First and foremost people make the statement 'trade down and pick up some more picks' just like they make the 'hire a GM statement'. Like it is some magical formula where you can go to the GM store or the Tradedown store and magically everything is fine. Well I have news for those people, trading takes two teams and if no one is willing to offer anything of value it won't happen. It is NOT a sound strategy to PLAN ON TRADING. You plan and prepare on NOT TRADING DOWN and if an opportuniy arises then you re-evaluate. The same for a GM. Just because we have a GM doesn't mean everything is fine. He would need to be a GOOD GM. There are plenty of teams who have traded down and ended up with scrap pieces because they traded away a shot at a difference maker and ended up with decent roll players. And there are plenty teams that never win championships with GMs.

That being said, you go into free agency looking to fix as many holes as possible so you dont have to rely on drafting to field 22 decent starters. Then the draft is used for depth. If we can bring a guy who knows the systems and can play why would his age be a problem? No one is expecting the guy to come in be the MLB for the next 8 years. We are talking about getting a good player to play for us while we build depth at the same position and others also.

I totally fail to see why his age is even a consideration other than for health reasons.

we could go back and forth on this all day. we can agree to disagree. We all have our OPINIONS on how to run the team, and probably to the Redskins benefit, neither of us ever will. If Rocky is not the answer, then there we go again throwing draft picks away and letting people ride the pine until we send them off. Rocky HAS to be a contributor, this season and not just on special teams. A second round LB should be cracking the starting line up. Or our scouts are just crappy and our personel decisions come under fire again. Marshall is out of position at MLB. I agree that Fletcher is probably an upgrade in that area.

In regards to the draft, drafting a guy in the 1st or 2nd round is just as much a crap shoot as drafting a guy in the 6th or 7th. No one is a sure thing, which puts more pressure on the personel dept to have more picks to work with and make QUALITY picks and have good player evaluations. It is remained to be seen if our personel can pick quality players to provide the depth needed. Free Agency (again, in my opinion) should be used to fill A whole or add a player that puts our team over the top, not fill multiple holes.

the GM thing...come on. We do not have the right people making the football decisions that need to be made. Everyone in that building is win now at any cost. We all have had the GM discusion. A GM will make the decisions based on a long term build for multiple years of success, not just flashes in the pan. Has our way of building a team panned out for us over the last 10 years? NO! We go to playoffs, then stink the next year because players are shown the door, then its rebuild again, retool again, bring in player A,B & C. I would argue that most of us Redskin die hards feel we need a better front office structure with a GM.

Matty - you appreciate the paragraphs dont you!
Look, I am not trying to argue or say you are wrong or I am right. We are both right in a lot of the points brought up. we just differ in the way we feel regarding a certain player. I think youth is better served, using the draft and not signing old (trust me, 32 to me is not old!!) but in football terms for a MLB its not young. We shall see what happens. I am not going to hate the guy if he is brought in. I hope he kicks ass!! I would just do it differently.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

In regards to the draft, drafting a guy in the 1st or 2nd round is just as much a crap shoot as drafting a guy in the 6th or 7th.

uh, actually, that's not true. not even close. how many starting QBs were 1st round picks? how many were 3rd-4th and how many were 6th or 7th rounders? i mean, you may think grossman sucks, but the low round QBs on that roster are even worse, and that's probably why they weren't taken earlier.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by That Guy

uh, actually, that's not true. not even close. how many starting QBs were 1st round picks? how many were 3rd-4th and how many were 6th or 7th rounders? i mean, you may think grossman sucks, but the low round QBs on that roster are even worse, and that's probably why they weren't taken earlier.

uh..what are you trying to say? how is drafting a 1st, 2nd, 3rd an exact science. there is no guarantee that a 1st rounder is going to be a hall of famer, or a bust, or at least servicable. I am just saying, the more picks you have in the draft, year in and year out, you are more likely to find a player whether its a star player or a contributing player. If we consistantly have 1st rounder and a couple of 5th through 7th the likely hood of filling roster spots with contributing players or star player diminishes drastically. Thats why we have no depth. Thats why when springs goes down, we have no one to fill in. unless Mike Rumph, Kenny wright, Ide Jimoh is quality depth. Ide Jimoh is an outstanding special teamer, there is a reason he doesn't play on a regular basis on D. filling spots on the team with aging over paid free agents is the reason we dont have depth. not having picks in the draft is why we dont have depth. the signing people off the street, generally old, or overrated players is the reason our D struggled for the most part. No depth, no true or halfway decent talent if a starter goes down. Holdman sucks,Marshall is out of position,Salvae is not a starter, out safety situation last season was a joke! Our corner situation last year when springs was hurt was a joke too! this all goes back to how the team is run. Look at the pro bowl, Baily, Harris(big surprise) pierce. you dont think our team would have been better with at least one of those guys.

[Mc2guy]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Well first off Rocky is an OLB and despite what many seem to think MLB and OLB are not just interchangeable. Especially in GW's system. In this system the MLB is the QB of the defense. He has to know what everyone is supposed to do so he can adjust when he diagrams what the other team is doing. For some reason I highly doubt anyone at Redskins park is willing to go into the next season with a guy who showed he can play the position average(Marshall) and a second year player who couldn't even crack the lineup at his natural position until mop up time. Rocky is not the answer.

As for trading down I agree it would be great to trade down and pick up several quality players but there are some problems with that too. First and foremost people make the statement 'trade down and pick up some more picks' just like they make the 'hire a GM statement'. Like it is some magical formula where you can go to the GM store or the Tradedown store and magically everything is fine. Well I have news for those people, trading takes two teams and if no one is willing to offer anything of value it won't happen. It is NOT a sound strategy to PLAN ON TRADING. You plan and prepare on NOT TRADING DOWN and if an opportuniy arises then you re-evaluate. The same for a GM. Just because we have a GM doesn't mean everything is fine. He would need to be a GOOD GM. There are plenty of teams who have traded down and ended up with scrap pieces because they traded away a shot at a difference maker and ended up with decent roll players. And there are plenty teams that never win championships with GMs.

That being said, you go into free agency looking to fix as many holes as possible so you dont have to rely on drafting to field 22 decent starters. Then the draft is used for depth. If we can bring a guy who knows the systems and can play why would his age be a problem? No one is expecting the guy to come in be the MLB for the next 8 years. We are talking about getting a good player to play for us while we build depth at the same position and others also.

I totally fail to see why his age is even a consideration other than for health reasons.

Thank you for some providing some sanity to the board. Trading down at this point is NOT the smart option. We need a difference maker on the D-line and we're likely to get one with this pick. Secondly, announcing that you would like to trade down immediately diminishes the value of your pick. I personally would like to see a solid d-line starter come out of this draft as opposed to a couple of "project" players. If a team comes along and really want our slot and is willing to give greater value on the Jimmy Johnson draft points system, then I would consider, but until then, go with the pick.

Also, when evaluating a player, I wish more people would ask the questions in an order relevant to "field value". For example:

1 tie) Can this guy play in my system
1 tie) Does he have the physical talent to improve my team
3) Is he injury prone
4) Is he a quality character person or a PITA
5) Will his numbers fit my cap plans

Age doesn't come up unless it's relevant to #3 IMHO.

3)